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Regarding comfort zones Camilla Send a noteboard - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM

This brings me to my final point. I concur with Greg that the book should not have been chosen as a book club selection. I second his anti-democratic sentiments and can say that the selection reinforces my low opinion of many of the cretins that slum around this site. Rather than pick a book that might have, as Camilla artfully put it, "taken them out of their comfort zones," they chose a book that was formulaic, derivative and predictable. In other words, they chose another work of genre-inspiring light fiction in place of literature. They chose a diversion. They chose a fantasy book.


How many of the people who voted had read the novel previously? When I voted (and I didn't even comment for The Count in the first thread, unlike someone:P), I chose based on what I had in my possession and what I had heard positively reviewed in the past. I didn't choose it because it was "childish" or "comfortable," because I didn't have that information at that point. I have a feeling I'm not alone in this.

And this frequent use of Camilla's comment greatly amuses me, given that she was another who said she'd enjoy discussing this, even though she didn't think she had time. Which, incidentally, is another reason I ultimately thought it was a good choice- I wouldn't have taken the time to read such a long book if I hadn't wanted to contribute to these posts with my friends. The argument that we're all a bunch of morons for selecting a book most hadn't yet read critically is silly, and worse, potentially damaging to the continuation of the club.


And to be fair, I suspect this book is outside the comfort zone of most people on this board. It is part of another pattern, another genre. One of the reasons I thought this book might be a good idea is that it is an easy read despite having been labelled a classic. I feel fairly certain that if we had read The Years or Madame Bovary or another book that calls for thorough interpretation and deep discussion (which is what Tom and Greg seem to think the book club will magically turn into if we read a book like that), most of those here would never pick up another non-genre book ever again. Part of leaving comfort zones is to get used to it so that you can do it again.

Overall, it seems to me that this selection has done its job as a book club choice, as it has given us a really good opportunity to trash or support a "classic" as we see fit.


This is true.

(All that said, hate on, by all means. I simply mind that many of us are being judged on something we wouldn't have known previously, and I find that obnoxious.)


Well, I knew what was coming. I had forgotten some of the melodrama and most of the action. And I was fine with it. Which, I suppose, means that most of the brunt of not having objected to this suggestion as a crime against decency falls on me.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open! Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM 2507 Views
Le plot. Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:55:26 PM 1285 Views
Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM 1433 Views
Les characters. Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM 1367 Views
The good, the bad and the ugly. Camilla - 26/01/2010 10:54:38 AM 1391 Views
Hmm. snoopcester - 27/01/2010 03:58:31 PM 1310 Views
Re: Hmm. Camilla - 27/01/2010 04:59:12 PM 1376 Views
Re: Hmm. snoopcester - 28/01/2010 01:40:34 PM 1326 Views
Re: Hmm. Camilla - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM 1521 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal? Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM 1358 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography? Larry - 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM 1457 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. Tom - 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM 1389 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM 1442 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM 1543 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM 1431 Views
He would not have known the book would be ruined by water. He thought he was being buried. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:15:02 PM 1345 Views
He would still have to swim, being on an island Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:37:26 PM 1511 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM 1263 Views
There is no such thing Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM 1312 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM 1368 Views
It isn't a postmodern take on it Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:41:32 PM 1337 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting snoopcester - 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM 1323 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM 1383 Views
If I ddin't know better, I might think you a trifle petulant snoopcester - 27/01/2010 04:19:57 PM 1444 Views
I'm never petulant Tom - 27/01/2010 04:55:56 PM 1306 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting Camilla - 27/01/2010 04:47:37 PM 1431 Views
I think one important question to ask is... Legolas - 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM 1421 Views
I like it, but it is purely on the adventure story level, and I've read the unabridged version. Rebekah - 26/01/2010 12:03:01 AM 1272 Views
I'm fairly certain I read the unabridged version. It was 1500 pages. *NM* Tom - 26/01/2010 02:36:10 AM 701 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time. Tashmere - 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM 1360 Views
the potentially removable part... Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:24:16 AM 1428 Views
I have read both Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM 1448 Views
I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general. Legolas - 27/01/2010 01:44:46 AM 1431 Views
Re: I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general. Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:48:11 AM 1359 Views
The abridged versus the unabridged Ryan - 28/01/2010 06:32:22 AM 1352 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM 1488 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? Dar Valon - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM 1369 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter: Danae al'Thor - 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM 1559 Views
I'm watching right back, Big Brother. *NM* The Shrike - 25/01/2010 11:44:30 PM 683 Views
*NM* Rebekah - 25/01/2010 11:45:27 PM 675 Views
The book was very childish. Tom - 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM 1475 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM 705 Views
No, it really isn't. Tom - 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM 1440 Views
You know, this is a problem. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM 1410 Views
Thank God, I've never even heard of "Skol". Popov, yes, but Skol? Tom - 26/01/2010 03:49:08 AM 1405 Views
I've not tried it, but every time I go into liquor stores, it sits on the bottom shelf. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 03:57:03 AM 1301 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above. Ghavrel - 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM 1472 Views
People tend to forget one thing about Tolkien Tom - 26/01/2010 01:36:06 PM 1394 Views
Re: No, it really isn't. Camilla - 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM 1341 Views
Having Camilla concur with me on literary matters is very encouraging. Tom - 26/01/2010 01:37:23 PM 1407 Views
I do not agree with your complete dismissal of The Count of Monte Cristo, though Camilla - 26/01/2010 04:58:58 PM 1365 Views
I'll admit the only Lem I've read is Solaris... Legolas - 26/01/2010 01:52:02 PM 1428 Views
Read His Master's Voice Camilla - 26/01/2010 04:52:31 PM 1338 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom Larry - 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM 1442 Views
You place undue importance on academic degrees. Ghavrel - 27/01/2010 01:19:40 AM 1416 Views
You misread totally what I said, I see... Larry - 27/01/2010 01:52:59 AM 1314 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM 1382 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays Larry - 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM 1333 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you? Tom - 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM 1387 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors Larry - 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM 1446 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM 1487 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely Larry - 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM 1373 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction. Tom - 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM 1334 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels Larry - 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM 1270 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted. Tom - 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM 1330 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though Larry - 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM 1300 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element. Tom - 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM 1507 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader Larry - 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM 1323 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree. Tom - 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM 1304 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose Larry - 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM 1177 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over Tom - 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM 1305 Views
True Larry - 03/02/2010 05:11:19 AM 1242 Views
Nice tie-in! Tom - 03/02/2010 01:55:33 PM 1279 Views
Larry - 05/02/2010 06:06:23 AM 1364 Views
Your unscientific anecdotal evidence sounds very odd to me. Legolas - 28/01/2010 12:15:10 AM 1374 Views
It might. I'm not purporting to speak for all of humanity (at least on this point). Tom - 28/01/2010 09:43:40 PM 1429 Views
The approve of this message. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 03:34:49 AM 1396 Views
So, what you're saying is that watching the 2002 movie was sufficient? Good! *NM* everynametaken - 26/01/2010 06:34:53 AM 669 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question nossy - 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM 1325 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book? Tom - 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM 1370 Views
I honestly can't remember. nossy - 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM 1338 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written. Tom - 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM 1350 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better. nossy - 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM 1345 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good. Tom - 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM 1398 Views
Possession is not "purely a romance novel". Legolas - 26/01/2010 02:57:17 PM 1524 Views
Which basically proves my entire point. nossy - 26/01/2010 03:00:20 PM 1384 Views
Which is purely a romance novel? Rebekah - 26/01/2010 02:59:38 PM 1396 Views
Fair enough, it might be a bit tricky to discuss. *NM* Legolas - 26/01/2010 03:04:58 PM 687 Views
In your opinion nossy - 26/01/2010 03:07:12 PM 1401 Views
Exactly why I avoid suggesting modern books Tom - 26/01/2010 03:10:09 PM 1389 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you? Larry - 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM 1370 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM 1276 Views
Ha! Larry - 27/01/2010 02:22:00 AM 1343 Views
Perhaps I would like it. I still hate epistolary novels. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:26:43 PM 1363 Views
Indeed. *NM* Rebekah - 26/01/2010 02:01:22 PM 623 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM 1424 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog Tom - 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM 1478 Views
I don't care if this validates your opinion of me. Tashmere - 29/01/2010 11:06:18 PM 1268 Views
On what basis? nossy - 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM 1428 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM 1422 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent. nossy - 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM 1318 Views
I didn't keep silent, though. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 1419 Views
You're ignoring what we've been discussing. nossy - 27/01/2010 11:11:44 AM 1367 Views
Regarding comfort zones Camilla - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM 1441 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here... Tom - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM 1466 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here... Camilla - 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM 1421 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM 1486 Views
Possibly Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM 1337 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM 1359 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM 1346 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM 1476 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM 1317 Views
Heh heh heh. Pink cardigan-wearing suburban cul-de-sac. I like it. *NM* Tom - 27/01/2010 03:11:25 PM 672 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM 1339 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM 1338 Views
why is it a bonus? Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM 1294 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM 1583 Views
I did Camilla - 27/01/2010 04:40:25 PM 1375 Views
Well, you wouldn't grow tired of us calling a novel shit if you chose a novel that wasn't shit. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:11:57 PM 1324 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones nossy - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM 1402 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones Camilla - 27/01/2010 11:59:31 AM 1353 Views
Halfway nossy - 27/01/2010 12:07:14 PM 1335 Views
Re: Halfway Camilla - 27/01/2010 12:09:02 PM 1363 Views
Re: The book was very childish. Dar Valon - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM 1369 Views
I read it in French Larry - 30/01/2010 10:54:34 PM 1251 Views
So. I really liked it. Nebhead - 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM 1480 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. Rebekah - 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM 1336 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM 1392 Views
We were talking about this last night. nossy - 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM 1468 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night. Camilla - 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM 1470 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM 1438 Views
Feel free to. Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM 1410 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM 1369 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM 1403 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM 1286 Views
My touchy-feely approach? Camilla - 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM 1306 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM 1349 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion? Camilla - 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM 1320 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. Legolas - 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM 1296 Views
You summed up my reasons for using "touchy-feely" quite well. Tom - 27/01/2010 07:27:45 PM 1325 Views
Glad to hear it. Legolas - 27/01/2010 07:39:20 PM 1208 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. Camilla - 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM 1382 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. Legolas - 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM 1431 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. Camilla - 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM 1339 Views
Well, so what will it be? Tom - 27/01/2010 09:14:53 PM 1296 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours? Legolas - 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM 1230 Views
Mine. Which is more complicated than a simple rejection. That is what I am saying. Camilla - 01/02/2010 12:53:58 PM 1211 Views
Do it. I'd read that. nossy - 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM 1464 Views
Re: Do it. I'd read that. Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM 1368 Views
Right then. nossy - 27/01/2010 02:15:04 PM 1328 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM 1391 Views
I call bullshit. I have been conducting the debate in a measured fashion. Tom - 27/01/2010 04:50:35 PM 1350 Views
And ANOTHER THING Tom - 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM 1250 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM* Camilla - 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM 735 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM 1420 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. Camilla - 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM 1366 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. Tom - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM 1301 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions... Legolas - 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM 1470 Views
It was mildly interesting. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:04:03 PM 1425 Views
I think you're misreading that... Legolas - 27/01/2010 10:18:11 PM 1446 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. Camilla - 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM 1425 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM 1305 Views
fine. *NM* Camilla - 27/01/2010 09:12:44 PM 669 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM 1339 Views
What discussion? Camilla - 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM 1361 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms. Tom - 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM 1441 Views
Which I still think we can. Camilla - 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM 1330 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM 1429 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. Camilla - 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM 1386 Views
You have yet to show any utility for breaking things down. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:19:29 PM 1451 Views
I haven't tried to show any "utility" for it. Camilla - 01/02/2010 01:06:35 PM 1296 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. Legolas - 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 1352 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. Camilla - 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM 1276 Views
Deary me. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM 1551 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates? Tom - 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 1305 Views
Not at all. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM 1466 Views
Okay, I'm cool with that. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:44:54 PM 1454 Views
Thank you. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 05:48:05 PM 1869 Views
Please ban me, then. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 06:44:55 PM 1301 Views
I'm sorry as well - if I had any kind of willpower, it wouldn't have gotten that far. nossy - 27/01/2010 06:29:43 PM 1375 Views
Nods Roland00 - 18/02/2010 05:06:44 PM 1785 Views
Oh man, I love this thread. *NM* Ghavrel - 28/01/2010 01:17:58 AM 654 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club" Jacob - 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM 1222 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions? Wibble - 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM 1437 Views
Yes, shorter would be good. Rebekah - 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM 1283 Views
Oh i'm not complaining Wibble - 28/01/2010 10:33:48 PM 1303 Views
Sure sounded like it. Rebekah - 28/01/2010 10:38:27 PM 1352 Views
No for reals, shorter is good. Darth_Katie - 29/01/2010 01:08:26 AM 1326 Views
Absolutely. Jacob - 29/01/2010 03:33:15 AM 1272 Views
Agreed snoopcester - 29/01/2010 11:26:34 AM 1348 Views
Well, you should have known better! Larry - 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM 1333 Views
I do. Jacob - 29/01/2010 08:31:30 PM 1306 Views
Thought you did Larry - 29/01/2010 08:38:39 PM 1305 Views
Jacob - 29/01/2010 08:51:42 PM 1321 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM* Ghavrel - 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM 634 Views
That is the other one that I am considering. *NM* Jacob - 29/01/2010 03:32:02 AM 655 Views
I'll re-read Zhivago or Master if either is chosen Tom - 29/01/2010 05:26:02 AM 1279 Views
Talk to me Ghavrel. Tashmere - 30/01/2010 12:09:24 AM 1233 Views
Well, I haven't finished it yet. Ghavrel - 30/01/2010 02:21:08 AM 1295 Views
Re: On the nature of the "Book Club" nossy - 29/01/2010 12:33:03 PM 1260 Views
I didn't read it for the Book Club AgentOrange - 29/01/2010 12:40:22 AM 1293 Views
Well I'm late to the party John - 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM 1264 Views
No, you're early Camilla - 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM 1174 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM* Tom - 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM 693 Views
A few comments John - 04/02/2010 06:39:18 AM 1610 Views
If I kept you from participating, that's your fault. Tom - 04/02/2010 01:01:46 PM 1259 Views
Interesting way of dismissing what has already been discussed about the book Larry - 03/02/2010 04:22:26 AM 1429 Views
Nah, there's been discussion, here and there inbetween the fighting. *NM* Legolas - 03/02/2010 04:39:24 PM 641 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience? Tashmere - 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM 1347 Views
Sure. Jacob - 01/02/2010 03:23:59 PM 1305 Views
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