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I like it. Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 01/12/2009 10:28:48 PM
I'm a little more open to considering some speculative fiction as full-blown literature than you, I think, especially since many of our "classics" are fantastic (in the sense of fantasy). After all, a journey through hell these days would land a work firmly in the Fantasy genre, but it's a staple of our classics.

Granted, I think the Wheel of Times far outnumber the Nineteen Eighty-Fours, and the Twilights far outnumber the Wheel of Times, but there are diamonds among the coal.

Still. Literature is necessary, no matter how you look at it. And the science fiction that I consider literature is still a very tiny slice of brilliant writing.

In conclusion I guess I'm trying to say with moderate success that I agree almost entirely with your post, and regarding the few details about which I would quibble, I have quibbled enough above.
"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla

Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel

*MySmiley*

Reply to message
In Support of Other Fiction Tom - 01/12/2009 09:06:14 PM 2068 Views
Rebekah - 01/12/2009 09:22:56 PM 1138 Views
Re: Tom - 01/12/2009 09:28:04 PM 1116 Views
you shouldn't feel the need to defend a non SF/F suggestion, just don't imlad - 03/12/2009 03:34:28 PM 1140 Views
Wow...we were just Santified *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 09:16:21 PM 563 Views
Well, let me offer a diverging view on the topic of speculative fiction. jh - 01/12/2009 09:46:35 PM 1045 Views
I would counter that the stripping away removes a level of reality. Tom - 01/12/2009 10:05:28 PM 1128 Views
That's a Slippery Slope Because You Could Argue On the Same Basis That All Fiction Does That. The Name With No Man - 01/12/2009 11:34:34 PM 1182 Views
I don't see the slippery slope, but rather, a confirmation of my original point. Tom - 02/12/2009 01:41:24 AM 1127 Views
perhaps some university will do a study imlad - 03/12/2009 03:55:54 PM 1083 Views
I'd like to see it Tom - 03/12/2009 09:15:12 PM 1135 Views
I'll get to it once I finish my thesis Camilla - 03/12/2009 09:56:29 PM 1076 Views
If it looks like crap and smells like crap... Tom - 03/12/2009 10:04:15 PM 1103 Views
I Think I'll Post a Thread on This. The Name With No Man - 03/12/2009 06:47:05 PM 1058 Views
I'd like to see it. Tom - 03/12/2009 09:23:07 PM 1101 Views
Regarding depth in Jordan Camilla - 03/12/2009 09:31:19 PM 1107 Views
I was thinking about that too Tom - 03/12/2009 10:05:40 PM 1085 Views
Re: I was thinking about that too Camilla - 03/12/2009 10:09:26 PM 1177 Views
Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:18:08 PM 1073 Views
Re: Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. Camilla - 03/12/2009 10:30:15 PM 1101 Views
It would. Destroying the Wheel would likely make him a Buddhist. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:51:17 PM 1083 Views
I Totally Missed That. Joel - 04/12/2009 10:45:56 PM 1156 Views
Re: I Totally Missed That. Camilla - 04/12/2009 10:47:59 PM 1138 Views
I Don't Believe It Cursory, But Comparative. The Name With No Man - 04/12/2009 11:29:36 PM 1228 Views
Publication bookend Y2K? Camilla - 05/12/2009 10:36:01 AM 1150 Views
They're Thick Bookends. The Name With No Man - 05/12/2009 06:12:06 PM 1082 Views
I'll Try to Have It Up Tomorrow Early. The Name With No Man - 04/12/2009 11:24:18 PM 1187 Views
Re: Well, let me offer a diverging view on the topic of speculative fiction. Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:28:30 AM 1097 Views
I like it. Ghavrel - 01/12/2009 10:28:48 PM 1100 Views
Thank you! Tom - 02/12/2009 01:43:05 AM 1246 Views
I find Michel Houellebecq to be one of the most intriguing writers of our time AgentOrange - 01/12/2009 11:14:05 PM 1191 Views
And, in recent memory, Orwell was a first-rate writer. Tom - 02/12/2009 01:44:29 AM 1181 Views
wait! there's somebody "dirtier" than Piers Anthony or Philip Jose Farmer??? imlad - 03/12/2009 04:00:28 PM 1146 Views
PJF is dirty? rebelaessedai - 04/12/2009 12:16:12 AM 1029 Views
Nice post. Legolas - 02/12/2009 12:03:09 AM 1195 Views
Perhaps you're right. Tom - 02/12/2009 01:47:10 AM 1065 Views
In its entirety? No. Legolas - 02/12/2009 02:00:10 PM 1108 Views
I agree! Dragonsworn - 02/12/2009 12:17:10 AM 1312 Views
Thank you! Tom - 02/12/2009 01:50:22 AM 1015 Views
I guess I'll break my silence after almost a month and a half... Larry - 02/12/2009 12:23:07 AM 1207 Views
Popcorn? Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:31:44 AM 1131 Views
Yes Larry - 02/12/2009 12:39:10 AM 1176 Views
Lovecraft? Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:51:55 AM 1165 Views
Re-read what I said Larry - 02/12/2009 12:55:08 AM 1235 Views
aahh Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:26:40 AM 1099 Views
I'm glad I could drive you from your Carthusian retreat, Larry Tom - 02/12/2009 01:58:49 AM 1125 Views
It won't last for long - have too many things still to deal with in my life Larry - 02/12/2009 02:36:15 AM 1125 Views
That's too bad. I'll have to learn monasterial sign language to continue a dialogue. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:49:01 AM 1083 Views
Well, I understand two out of those three languages Larry - 02/12/2009 03:56:00 AM 1096 Views
Larry, please tell me you weren't... imlad - 03/12/2009 04:33:32 PM 966 Views
I concur Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:27:13 AM 1089 Views
I like your framing of the issue (and Shannara is the Taco Bell of writing). Tom - 02/12/2009 02:03:51 AM 1132 Views
Thank you Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:30:42 AM 1082 Views
more like the mom&pop greasy-spoon diner of writing *NM* imlad - 03/12/2009 05:00:21 PM 523 Views
I'm going to put this in my sig, if you don't mind. Ghavrel - 02/12/2009 03:31:13 AM 1155 Views
hehehe Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:31:28 AM 1039 Views
Am i the only one who reads books for fun? Wibble - 02/12/2009 12:33:52 AM 1184 Views
There isn't necessarily a contradiction Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:38:43 AM 1117 Views
I certainly didn't read The Lost Symbol for ANY cultural, intellectual or edifying reason. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:05:45 AM 1090 Views
it didn't come across that way imlad - 03/12/2009 05:15:36 PM 1117 Views
Of course not. Personally, I don't touch anything other than mind candy when I'm in school, Ghavrel - 02/12/2009 03:29:23 AM 1058 Views
one of the things that is important to me in books/shows imlad - 03/12/2009 05:20:29 PM 991 Views
We agree! Camilla - 03/12/2009 08:03:00 PM 1093 Views
WoT has decent characterization, though a little overwrought. Harrington... not so much. Ghavrel - 04/12/2009 04:26:43 AM 1253 Views
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a science fiction/fantasy movie. Aeryn - 02/12/2009 12:54:08 AM 1154 Views
i was gonna point that out. thnks. *NM* imlad - 02/12/2009 01:13:47 AM 472 Views
Reading only speculative literature is limiting and monotonous. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:09:42 AM 1184 Views
I was going to say exactly that about "real" literature: monotonous and limiting. Aeryn - 02/12/2009 01:57:49 PM 1086 Views
I think his point was that only SF/F wasn't good food. Rebekah - 02/12/2009 02:15:29 PM 1059 Views
I would not disagree with you if you said that. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:27:08 PM 1014 Views
Most non-speculative fiction is fluff as well though. Werthead - 03/12/2009 05:38:32 PM 1008 Views
hear hear!! I agree totally wert-man imlad - 03/12/2009 07:20:09 PM 1077 Views
Which brings us back to my point. Camilla - 03/12/2009 08:04:24 PM 1130 Views
I would like to see the study and statistics that produced this answer. Werthead - 04/12/2009 05:24:02 PM 1021 Views
Re: I would like to see the study and statistics that produced this answer. Camilla - 04/12/2009 10:42:33 PM 1044 Views
Actually, it is a film that does not fit neatly into one category Camilla - 02/12/2009 11:16:20 AM 1133 Views
Science Fiction is the most PERTINANT form of fiction in the world today imlad - 02/12/2009 12:57:19 AM 1083 Views
don't get me wrong imlad - 02/12/2009 01:28:08 AM 1115 Views
"Pertinent", not "Pertinant". If it weren't in all caps I'd have ignored it this time. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:13:36 AM 1120 Views
SF&F and 'real literature' are not mutually exclusive Werthead - 02/12/2009 01:19:05 AM 1076 Views
No, they are not Tom - 02/12/2009 02:18:53 AM 1089 Views
This line is a load of bull bme - 03/12/2009 02:39:53 PM 1194 Views
So why don't we occasionally focus on "real" books that are technically spec fiction? nossy - 02/12/2009 01:25:04 AM 1055 Views
Why must we limit our focus in that way? Tom - 02/12/2009 02:20:11 AM 1044 Views
I don't see it as limiting or forcing. nossy - 02/12/2009 03:16:07 AM 1068 Views
"Elite club" or "elitist clique"? Tom - 02/12/2009 03:52:11 AM 1050 Views
Either way, I want in. *NM* Camilla - 02/12/2009 11:33:52 AM 566 Views
Elite club is how we midwestern rednecks refer to Elitist Clique. *chews on a piece of hay* nossy - 02/12/2009 02:52:01 PM 1206 Views
I was born in the Midwest. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 1116 Views
I know. nossy - 02/12/2009 03:12:05 PM 1046 Views
Green Acres in reverse, eh? Tom - 02/12/2009 03:38:09 PM 1081 Views
lmao Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:21:17 PM 1230 Views
*piledrivers you* nossy - 02/12/2009 06:28:02 PM 1011 Views
...! Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:17:57 PM 1063 Views
Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:29:31 PM 1071 Views
Re: Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:31:26 PM 1019 Views
Vermont isn't in the Midwest. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:39:36 PM 1030 Views
Re: Vermont isn't in the Midwest. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:42:47 PM 1064 Views
Huh! I really didn't think of you as being a masochist. Vodalus - 02/12/2009 01:51:55 AM 1028 Views
Thank you! Tom - 02/12/2009 02:21:00 AM 958 Views
Shitstorm! Vodalus - 02/12/2009 03:06:59 AM 1011 Views
Heh heh heh. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:45:40 AM 1057 Views
Read what you like to read. Craig - 02/12/2009 04:18:53 AM 1142 Views
I'll super size you. Fine. *NM* Tom - 02/12/2009 04:32:58 AM 533 Views
Oh noes! I'm getting word-fat! Craig - 02/12/2009 04:59:05 AM 1064 Views
I seem to have struck a nerve. Tom - 02/12/2009 05:20:27 AM 1097 Views
Apparently not the nerve you think, though. Craig - 02/12/2009 06:42:02 AM 1169 Views
Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:13:10 PM 1082 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:26:59 PM 1093 Views
Agreed. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:30:50 PM 1011 Views
Re: Agreed. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:32:06 PM 1006 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. Craig - 02/12/2009 09:40:28 PM 1136 Views
I really did get under your skin Tom - 02/12/2009 09:58:18 PM 1007 Views
Craig - 02/12/2009 10:06:46 PM 1005 Views
Tom as much as you raise some great points, you are being a condescending ass. lord-of-shadow - 03/12/2009 04:26:27 AM 1061 Views
You're entitled to your opinion. I don't care. Tom - 03/12/2009 04:51:18 AM 1045 Views
I keep replying. It's like a sickness. Craig - 03/12/2009 05:15:28 AM 1062 Views
Your subject line reinforces my opinion. Tom - 03/12/2009 05:31:50 AM 979 Views
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/12/2009 07:21:05 AM 516 Views
LOL! rebelaessedai - 04/12/2009 12:21:36 AM 1020 Views
See, you just proved my point. Tom - 04/12/2009 12:39:59 AM 1064 Views
Hm. Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:58:56 AM 1664 Views
Re-read my exact point. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:18:20 PM 1020 Views
No. Some kind of reading is indeed essential. Lupine - 02/12/2009 02:28:22 PM 1176 Views
There may have been an assumption about literature due to the reason for the post. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:37:47 PM 1076 Views
Somehow I get the feeling that this post hasn't caused quite as much controversy Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:53:18 AM 1171 Views
As I see it... Camilla - 02/12/2009 11:38:07 AM 1049 Views
Yep. Lupine - 02/12/2009 02:18:22 PM 1215 Views
Re: Yep. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:35:38 PM 1075 Views
Euripides was poorly received, initially. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:57:58 PM 981 Views
Re: Euripides was poorly received, initially. Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:00:35 PM 1012 Views
I know. Tom - 02/12/2009 04:18:16 PM 1074 Views
Re: I know. Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:23:14 PM 1012 Views
That is why he's so good, in my opinion. Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:15:45 PM 1172 Views
I wasn't looking to generate controversy Tom - 02/12/2009 02:19:13 PM 1171 Views
Well... then I'm going to have to agree with Craig a bit. Lupine - 02/12/2009 02:32:59 PM 1166 Views
Well, I was being somewhat denigrating. "Unnecessarily" or not is a matter of debate. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:40:29 PM 1032 Views
Well, it's only "unnecessary" if you don't want people to be turned off of your message immediately. *NM* Craig - 02/12/2009 09:42:46 PM 519 Views
Judging from the responses, most people weren't turned off immediately. Tom - 02/12/2009 09:59:35 PM 1020 Views
All reading of fiction is a diversion by the very nature of the activity. Jacob - 02/12/2009 03:43:05 PM 1074 Views
Diversion from direct action, yes. Diversion from reality, no. Tom - 02/12/2009 04:15:48 PM 1030 Views
I maintain that all acts of reading fiction are a diversion from reality/ the realistic Jacob - 02/12/2009 05:43:16 PM 1048 Views
It seems a regressive argument to me. Tom - 03/12/2009 01:18:02 AM 998 Views
You're playing a game. Jacob - 03/12/2009 03:40:14 PM 1080 Views
I like your response. *NM* Aeryn - 03/12/2009 05:37:09 PM 486 Views
I fundamentally agree with much of what you're saying, but there is a distinction. Tom - 03/12/2009 06:44:02 PM 1068 Views
Oh I concur on that distinction. Jacob - 04/12/2009 09:06:34 PM 1113 Views
Spec fic is perhaps at it's best in autocracies? Ouranid - 02/12/2009 04:10:56 PM 996 Views
Bulgakov Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:25:17 PM 1050 Views
I've only read the first chapter of M&M. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 04:36:09 PM 1021 Views
Re: I've only read the first chapter of M&M. Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:40:16 PM 973 Views
Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 05:17:31 PM 1007 Views
Re: Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. Camilla - 02/12/2009 05:40:16 PM 1055 Views
I suppose. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 06:26:30 PM 1056 Views
Re: I suppose. Camilla - 02/12/2009 07:25:26 PM 1064 Views
Well, I don't hold escapism in such low esteem *NM* Ouranid - 02/12/2009 07:56:13 PM 527 Views
That is what I mean Camilla - 02/12/2009 08:36:02 PM 988 Views
This was something I was exploring earlier. Tom - 02/12/2009 04:34:41 PM 1098 Views
Funny thing about the hivemind antagonist. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 05:13:30 PM 1061 Views
I didn't see the zombies reading speculative fiction Tom - 02/12/2009 05:30:26 PM 1136 Views
Oh, they prefer Clive Cussler. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 06:23:42 PM 1111 Views
There's an interesting book in Russian that might be translated somewhere. Tom - 02/12/2009 10:02:48 PM 1123 Views
i think it comes more down to quality than genre. LadyLorraine - 02/12/2009 04:55:20 PM 1077 Views
I disagree with the ultimate conclusion but agree with many of your points. Tom - 02/12/2009 05:43:04 PM 1049 Views
the illiad is a classic LadyLorraine - 02/12/2009 06:35:24 PM 1070 Views
There's only one "L" in Iliad Tom - 02/12/2009 08:18:38 PM 1038 Views
Is there a safe answer to that question? *NM* LadyLorraine - 02/12/2009 10:33:21 PM 549 Views
Maybe not. *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 12:59:09 AM 518 Views
It took me a few minutes to agree Beqi - 02/12/2009 07:04:59 PM 1024 Views
Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! Tom - 02/12/2009 09:13:26 PM 1039 Views
Re: Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:20:49 PM 1017 Views
I don't know. I've only read about 30 pages so far. *NM* Tom - 02/12/2009 10:05:54 PM 548 Views
Many people have mentioned that there's quite a bit of good sff lit out there and you seem to agree. Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 07:33:42 PM 1146 Views
Hmmm Camilla - 02/12/2009 08:40:53 PM 1052 Views
Re: Hmmm Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 10:48:02 PM 1068 Views
The website is called "Read and Find Out". It doesn't specify what we're supposed to read. Rebekah - 02/12/2009 08:42:19 PM 1116 Views
Anti the idea ? I see no evidence for this. AgentOrange - 02/12/2009 09:50:37 PM 1069 Views
Heh Rebekah - 02/12/2009 09:56:30 PM 1075 Views
What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom AgentOrange - 03/12/2009 11:01:08 AM 1044 Views
Re: What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom Camilla - 03/12/2009 11:10:35 AM 1062 Views
I see. You don't read announcements. Rebekah - 03/12/2009 11:12:04 AM 1028 Views
No, but it does bill itself as science fiction/fantasy. Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 10:51:41 PM 1158 Views
Yes. Rebekah - 03/12/2009 12:01:30 AM 1155 Views
I think Rebekah and Camilla put it well. Tom - 02/12/2009 10:05:24 PM 1125 Views
I think they make good points, as I said above. Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 10:56:55 PM 1021 Views
I agree with in principle random thoughts - 02/12/2009 11:22:19 PM 1002 Views
Certainly. People are free to skip any discussion. Tom - 03/12/2009 01:01:40 AM 1120 Views
I have a few objections. Dreaded Anomaly - 03/12/2009 12:24:43 AM 1088 Views
where else should we talk about it? LadyLorraine - 03/12/2009 12:37:26 AM 1046 Views
There's a difference between having threads about it and focusing the official book club on it. Dreaded Anomaly - 03/12/2009 12:40:53 AM 1142 Views
This is the Sci-Fi and Fantasy Board for site optimization purposes. Tom - 03/12/2009 01:07:39 AM 14082 Views
random thoughts stole my subject line Chas - 03/12/2009 01:56:07 AM 1090 Views
I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy Tom - 03/12/2009 02:12:01 AM 1103 Views
Re: I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy Chas - 03/12/2009 02:38:17 AM 1156 Views
That's it Ouranid - 03/12/2009 04:02:28 AM 1160 Views
Question: is it really science fiction without one of the following: Tom - 03/12/2009 05:13:21 AM 1098 Views
Certainly Ouranid - 03/12/2009 06:13:38 AM 1143 Views
technically speaking, fantasy is classed as a sub heading under science fiction. *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/12/2009 02:51:12 PM 449 Views
According to whom? *NM* Camilla - 03/12/2009 03:55:45 PM 575 Views
Yeah. What she asked! *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 09:23:55 PM 539 Views
Yes, it is but actually... Ellestra - 03/12/2009 09:31:44 PM 1071 Views
Eternal Sunshine doesn't have a mad scientist. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:09:01 PM 1000 Views
Really? Ellestra - 04/12/2009 07:01:42 PM 1052 Views
But Dan Brown rocks da house!!! *NM* everynametaken - 03/12/2009 02:16:47 AM 544 Views
*pumps fist* Give it up for Dan Brown! *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 03:58:23 AM 539 Views
That's Dan "booyah" Brown!!! Booyah!!! *NM* everynametaken - 04/12/2009 02:00:56 AM 547 Views
another thing wrong with your argument imlad - 03/12/2009 03:30:19 PM 1056 Views
Absolutely not. And, as I said before, there's only one "L" in Iliad. Tom - 03/12/2009 06:53:35 PM 880 Views
sorry about my atrocious spelling (including the one on pertinent) imlad - 03/12/2009 07:14:59 PM 1180 Views
No problem. On the substantive points: Tom - 03/12/2009 08:00:33 PM 1111 Views
more importantly, which I think it being lost in all this, Camilla - 03/12/2009 08:05:27 PM 1112 Views
I'm not reading the Iliad again, once was enough random thoughts - 04/12/2009 12:19:07 PM 1042 Views
is it just me, or is this now the largest post/thread yet on RAFO.com??? 168 replies so far! *NM* imlad - 03/12/2009 05:03:25 PM 480 Views
Well, for once we're discussing books...and their value. *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 06:54:01 PM 549 Views
Congratulations on the replies count Ellestra - 03/12/2009 09:30:41 PM 1177 Views
That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:50:29 PM 1129 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. Ellestra - 04/12/2009 07:44:56 PM 1109 Views
But the objective truth of a setting can be measured. Tom - 04/12/2009 10:37:10 PM 1034 Views
But does it make any difference in the objective value of the book? Ellestra - 06/12/2009 09:35:59 AM 1195 Views
YES. Tom - 06/12/2009 03:34:17 PM 1013 Views
NO Ellestra - 07/12/2009 08:40:33 PM 1098 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. AgentOrange - 04/12/2009 10:25:08 PM 1046 Views
Yes, it is worse with movies. Much worse, in fact. Tom - 04/12/2009 10:33:18 PM 1095 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. Ellestra - 06/12/2009 09:36:11 AM 1048 Views
Maybe we're different, but I don't care for FX AgentOrange - 06/12/2009 01:37:53 PM 992 Views
This is not about the personal taste Ellestra - 07/12/2009 08:50:34 PM 1096 Views
I've obviously missed the show here... rebelaessedai - 04/12/2009 12:14:30 AM 1019 Views
I'm not sure that's right. This thing just keeps growing. Tom - 04/12/2009 12:46:24 AM 1135 Views
What, your penis? rebelaessedai - 06/12/2009 02:40:09 AM 1018 Views
Don't you know it! Tom - 06/12/2009 03:28:16 PM 935 Views
You talk the talk, that's for sure. rebelaessedai - 07/12/2009 08:14:41 PM 1069 Views
Hate to break it to you... Craig - 07/12/2009 09:54:24 PM 1123 Views
I thought you were gonna tell me... rebelaessedai - 08/12/2009 03:07:54 PM 1187 Views
Metaphor versus literalism Werthead - 04/12/2009 05:42:03 PM 1092 Views
Metaphor divorced from the reality runs risks, however. Tom - 04/12/2009 10:25:47 PM 1007 Views
Honestly, the moral can always be dismissed as inapplicable if you want to dismiss it. Legolas - 05/12/2009 12:16:39 AM 1069 Views
While that's true, it's much harder to just dismiss Mockingbird. Ghavrel - 05/12/2009 03:57:42 AM 1036 Views
Then why read fiction at all? It's all a diversion. Werthead - 05/12/2009 04:16:06 PM 1028 Views
I think people should read non-fiction, and The Nine Hundred Days is an excellent book. Tom - 05/12/2009 04:41:50 PM 1018 Views
aha. but. Camilla - 07/12/2009 03:56:48 PM 1225 Views
Quoting Nietzsche is really hitting below the belt. Tom - 07/12/2009 09:12:34 PM 1164 Views
It is good I was only paraphrasing, then Camilla - 08/12/2009 10:44:14 AM 1058 Views
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