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Re: Currently kicking myself Stephen Send a noteboard - 16/08/2012 10:11:01 AM
I had my doubts on that score in the original text, but took it out because it got chunky. Damnit.

3. Plot: It seems blatantly obvious to me at this point (indeed, it seemed obvious quite early in the book) that Jon Snow is the son of Ned Stark's sister Lyanna and Rhaegar Targaryen. I assume he raped her (the only possible justification for the rape theme that pervades the series) and that she made her brother swear to keep the child's parentage secret so that Robert would not kill it. I have heard Jon Snow's parentage presented as one of the great mysteries of the series. This depresses me.

It's not meant as a mystery, as it's pretty obvious. But I think you must have missed something. All indications are that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love. I believe in this book Ned remembers her telling him that Robert would never be a good husband. So she most definitely was not interested in Robert. To be fair, there are more clues in later books about the relationship between Lyanna and Rhaegar.

I did consider that the almost exclusive rape indications could be a ruse. Especially when someone stated flat out that that was what had happened (Robert, I think?). But since all I had to go on was my paranoia, I thought I might be taking it a little far.

I am glad that what I had heard about Jon Snow's parentage being a great mystery is not true.


It's never explicitly confirmed but all signs point to R+L=J. I think it will be revealed eventually.
"I mean, if everyone had a soul, there would be no contrast by which we could appreciate it. For giving us this perspective, we thank you." - Nate
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A Game of Thrones by George R. R. Martin Camilla - 13/08/2012 10:48:37 PM 8864 Views
Fascinating. Legolas - 13/08/2012 11:40:22 PM 2347 Views
Re: Fascinating. Camilla - 14/08/2012 06:23:13 AM 2154 Views
Mainly the names. Werthead - 17/08/2012 12:07:21 AM 2085 Views
Regarding Daenerys as Henry Tudor Camilla - 14/08/2012 06:36:37 AM 2232 Views
Not really. Legolas - 14/08/2012 07:01:36 PM 2328 Views
Shocking Camilla - 15/08/2012 06:49:18 AM 2161 Views
On the Rape issue.... djwilson300 - 14/08/2012 01:19:35 AM 2205 Views
Re: On the Rape issue.... dacole - 14/08/2012 02:02:42 AM 2071 Views
Firstly, Camilla is a she. Secondly, though I won't speak for her, regarding the rape in the novels, Ghavrel - 14/08/2012 02:23:19 AM 2219 Views
When does he use rape in an erotic manner? A Deathwatch Guard - 14/08/2012 05:48:59 AM 2074 Views
like all the time. Foxhead - 14/09/2012 04:45:42 PM 2166 Views
Camilla is indeed a she. Camilla - 14/08/2012 06:18:58 AM 2125 Views
Re: Camilla is indeed a she. dacole - 14/08/2012 04:37:17 PM 2113 Views
Re: Camilla is indeed a she. Camilla - 15/08/2012 06:39:31 AM 2214 Views
I for one never saw any of the rapes as erotic imlad - 21/08/2012 05:04:11 PM 2337 Views
Re: On the Rape issue.... Camilla - 14/08/2012 06:17:55 AM 2055 Views
How is that a violent rape? At worst it would be statutory rape. Cannoli - 17/08/2012 11:53:44 AM 2121 Views
The wedding night is statutory. I would describe the later rapes as fairly violent. Camilla - 17/08/2012 12:13:26 PM 2177 Views
That was her only sex scene, until she induces him to have outdoor sex to get pregnant Cannoli - 17/08/2012 07:20:09 PM 2159 Views
It is not necessary to provide a scene Camilla - 17/08/2012 10:49:20 PM 2068 Views
I believe that what is happening here is called confirmation bias *NM* Kotagg - 21/08/2012 06:23:38 PM 1169 Views
House Banners/Sigils imlad - 21/08/2012 04:56:07 PM 2117 Views
Re: A Game of Thrones by George R. R. Martin dacole - 14/08/2012 02:08:59 AM 1998 Views
Re: A Game of Thrones by George R. R. Martin Camilla - 14/08/2012 06:25:11 AM 2113 Views
I think you misread one part Dark Knight - 14/08/2012 04:51:34 PM 2280 Views
I think that the Rhaegar and Lyanna stuff does look like rape in the first book Stephen - 14/08/2012 08:10:27 PM 2063 Views
"Looks like" is this case meaning "explicitly stated to be that way"? Cannoli - 17/08/2012 11:56:48 AM 2019 Views
Currently kicking myself Camilla - 15/08/2012 06:43:36 AM 2266 Views
Re: Currently kicking myself Stephen - 16/08/2012 10:11:01 AM 2097 Views
what a great review. you echo my thoughts quite a bit... temeraire - 15/08/2012 01:21:38 AM 2027 Views
Re: what a great review. you echo my thoughts quite a bit... Camilla - 15/08/2012 07:39:24 AM 2248 Views
philippa gregory co-authored a book "the women of the cousins' war" - it was very interesting temeraire - 16/08/2012 07:54:50 PM 2090 Views
Wait...why would you waste time reading this fluff series when it's out on TV? Tom - 16/08/2012 12:10:32 AM 2183 Views
Trollolololololololllll *NM* Kotagg - 16/08/2012 01:02:22 AM 997 Views
Se noteboard. *NM* Camilla - 16/08/2012 06:29:39 AM 1057 Views
Game, set, and match *NM* Praziquantel - 18/08/2012 03:50:38 PM 1021 Views
I always liked the banners and pageantry - it creates an interesting contrast... lord-of-shadow - 16/08/2012 11:52:40 PM 1980 Views
Re: I always liked the banners and pageantry - it creates an interesting contrast... Camilla - 17/08/2012 06:33:24 AM 2148 Views
I think the TV series handles the problematic Dany/Drogo relationship better Werthead - 17/08/2012 12:20:16 AM 2165 Views
Re: I think the TV series handles the problematic Dany/Drogo relationship better Camilla - 17/08/2012 06:40:12 AM 2052 Views
I think it messed it up by showing forced intercourse without the verbal consent Drogo DID obtain Cannoli - 17/08/2012 12:07:14 PM 2129 Views
I still find it difficult to read it as anything other than a coerced consent Stephen - 17/08/2012 01:08:15 PM 1976 Views
A perpetrator-less crime then. Cannoli - 17/08/2012 07:26:26 PM 2114 Views
Exactly! I'm on board, Cannoli. Kotagg - 18/08/2012 07:45:56 PM 1976 Views
You are missing the point. Camilla - 18/08/2012 11:11:33 PM 2087 Views
Re: You are missing the point. Werthead - 19/08/2012 01:25:30 PM 2146 Views
Re: You are missing the point. Camilla - 19/08/2012 01:40:11 PM 2104 Views
So, you're saying that Juliet was raped by Romeo??? imlad - 21/08/2012 05:24:56 PM 2168 Views
The later books do add more context and change some of this snoopcester - 19/08/2012 12:08:49 AM 2023 Views
Re: The later books do add more context and change some of this Camilla - 19/08/2012 07:27:59 AM 2037 Views
That makes sense snoopcester - 19/08/2012 02:35:36 PM 1807 Views
Jesus Christ another fucking thread about rape and fantasy. Dan - 19/08/2012 01:47:43 AM 1277 Views
Perhaps if reading other people's views makes you so angry, you should avoid reading them? *NM* snoopcester - 19/08/2012 02:37:03 PM 1099 Views
High blood pressure can kill, I hear. *NM* Camilla - 19/08/2012 03:33:14 PM 1155 Views
Nonsense. nossy - 19/08/2012 03:33:39 PM 1046 Views
Fixed it for you. Dan - 19/08/2012 08:22:18 PM 1147 Views
Oh, but that takes us back to snoop being right, and I'm sorry, but I just cannot abide that. nossy - 19/08/2012 10:56:10 PM 1085 Views
Shake the sand out of your vagina bitch. *NM* everynametaken - 20/08/2012 06:35:32 AM 1056 Views
Gosh, this is really turning into something fun. nossy - 20/08/2012 07:15:01 AM 1202 Views
Here I was about to make a "whee misogyny" post. I never get to have fun. *NM* Ghavrel - 20/08/2012 09:09:04 AM 935 Views
Huh. I just came to the odd realization... Legolas - 20/08/2012 08:29:56 PM 1140 Views
Don't lock it! Dan - 21/08/2012 05:11:34 AM 1112 Views
Yes, I'm aware, or I might have locked it already. Legolas - 21/08/2012 06:17:29 PM 986 Views
I'd ask that you do lock it. Stephen - 21/08/2012 10:00:48 PM 1054 Views
Fair enough. *NM* Legolas - 22/08/2012 06:26:04 PM 970 Views
I may join you Camilla - 20/08/2012 10:14:50 PM 1129 Views
COME AT ME BRO *NM* Dan - 21/08/2012 05:09:34 AM 991 Views
The interesting part is... ? - 28/08/2012 01:39:49 AM 1946 Views
That is the best written and most insightful review of that book I have read random thoughts - 01/09/2012 05:38:00 PM 2051 Views
I forgot that I was supposed to read all threads to watch out for Bad Behaviour. Rebekah - 01/09/2012 11:09:52 PM 2254 Views
i'm rereading the series now and yeah there is a LOT of rape Foxhead - 14/09/2012 04:38:27 PM 2630 Views
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