I feel like you missed a major setting issue. The books take place in a medieval time period where arranged marriages are consummated as soon as a girl "flowers" (12-13 years old in many cases).
Direct from Wikipedia (which we all know has to be true)
The definition of rape varies both in different parts of the world and at different times in history.[17] It is defined in many jurisdictions as sexual intercourse, or other forms of sexual penetration, of one person by another person without the consent of the victim.[17]
If I recall, Daeny does say yes and therefor that is not the definition of rape, although not how you and I would view consensual either. It is a completely different cultural standard than today, and you seem to want to judge these characters with today's standards, instead of losing yourself in their world.
You disregard the banners and pageantry, much like I did the first time through GoT, because like you I could never remember the 20 different knights names in the tourney or their banners. But in that long listing paragraph is the introduction to so many of our sub-plots for the next four novels, which Martin does a great job of interweaving with the Starks and Lannisters (two of which you will love wholeheartedly before book 5 and one you will continue to loathe).
The recent history of Westeros is not slapped across your face most of the time and in many cases, you must decipher from the different perspectives what is reality and propaganda. The great mystery although is not what did happen a generation ago, but what could have happened and how close these wars, weddings, rivalries, and ultimately every characters pending doom could have been avoided because of one simple fart. After a couple thousand pages you see how the factions used to work together and how they fit together today. Those banners help identify families and this helps illuminate the complex weave Martin has created for us.
I agree that his series stalls in book 4 and 5, but if you give book 2 and 3 a chance, you will find that the plot thickens and events spin wildly out of control for everyone. The meek inherit the thrones, and the strong are cast down by magic, treachery, and pure stupidity at times. The evil and good alike are slain by the thousands, and the war of the five kings erodes everyone into a husk of their beginning selves as we met them in GoT. All while the true enemy gains strength and WINTER IS COMING!
Direct from Wikipedia (which we all know has to be true)
The definition of rape varies both in different parts of the world and at different times in history.[17] It is defined in many jurisdictions as sexual intercourse, or other forms of sexual penetration, of one person by another person without the consent of the victim.[17]
If I recall, Daeny does say yes and therefor that is not the definition of rape, although not how you and I would view consensual either. It is a completely different cultural standard than today, and you seem to want to judge these characters with today's standards, instead of losing yourself in their world.
You disregard the banners and pageantry, much like I did the first time through GoT, because like you I could never remember the 20 different knights names in the tourney or their banners. But in that long listing paragraph is the introduction to so many of our sub-plots for the next four novels, which Martin does a great job of interweaving with the Starks and Lannisters (two of which you will love wholeheartedly before book 5 and one you will continue to loathe).
The recent history of Westeros is not slapped across your face most of the time and in many cases, you must decipher from the different perspectives what is reality and propaganda. The great mystery although is not what did happen a generation ago, but what could have happened and how close these wars, weddings, rivalries, and ultimately every characters pending doom could have been avoided because of one simple fart. After a couple thousand pages you see how the factions used to work together and how they fit together today. Those banners help identify families and this helps illuminate the complex weave Martin has created for us.
I agree that his series stalls in book 4 and 5, but if you give book 2 and 3 a chance, you will find that the plot thickens and events spin wildly out of control for everyone. The meek inherit the thrones, and the strong are cast down by magic, treachery, and pure stupidity at times. The evil and good alike are slain by the thousands, and the war of the five kings erodes everyone into a husk of their beginning selves as we met them in GoT. All while the true enemy gains strength and WINTER IS COMING!
He is most definitely judging the book by today's standards but for feminists that is the point, much like for people who disliked the use of the n word in the works of Mark Twain. I agree with you but I doubt he will.
A Game of Thrones by George R. R. Martin
13/08/2012 10:48:37 PM
- 8864 Views
Fascinating.
13/08/2012 11:40:22 PM
- 2347 Views
On the Rape issue....
14/08/2012 01:19:35 AM
- 2205 Views
Re: On the Rape issue....
14/08/2012 02:02:42 AM
- 2071 Views
Firstly, Camilla is a she. Secondly, though I won't speak for her, regarding the rape in the novels,
14/08/2012 02:23:19 AM
- 2219 Views
Camilla is indeed a she.
14/08/2012 06:18:58 AM
- 2125 Views
Re: On the Rape issue....
14/08/2012 06:17:55 AM
- 2055 Views
How is that a violent rape? At worst it would be statutory rape.
17/08/2012 11:53:44 AM
- 2121 Views
The wedding night is statutory. I would describe the later rapes as fairly violent.
17/08/2012 12:13:26 PM
- 2177 Views
That was her only sex scene, until she induces him to have outdoor sex to get pregnant
17/08/2012 07:20:09 PM
- 2159 Views
It is not necessary to provide a scene
17/08/2012 10:49:20 PM
- 2068 Views
I believe that what is happening here is called confirmation bias *NM*
21/08/2012 06:23:38 PM
- 1169 Views
I think you misread one part
14/08/2012 04:51:34 PM
- 2280 Views
I think that the Rhaegar and Lyanna stuff does look like rape in the first book
14/08/2012 08:10:27 PM
- 2063 Views
"Looks like" is this case meaning "explicitly stated to be that way"?
17/08/2012 11:56:48 AM
- 2019 Views
what a great review. you echo my thoughts quite a bit...
15/08/2012 01:21:38 AM
- 2027 Views
Re: what a great review. you echo my thoughts quite a bit...
15/08/2012 07:39:24 AM
- 2248 Views
philippa gregory co-authored a book "the women of the cousins' war" - it was very interesting
16/08/2012 07:54:50 PM
- 2090 Views
Wait...why would you waste time reading this fluff series when it's out on TV?
16/08/2012 12:10:32 AM
- 2183 Views
I always liked the banners and pageantry - it creates an interesting contrast...
16/08/2012 11:52:40 PM
- 1980 Views
Re: I always liked the banners and pageantry - it creates an interesting contrast...
17/08/2012 06:33:24 AM
- 2148 Views
I think the TV series handles the problematic Dany/Drogo relationship better
17/08/2012 12:20:16 AM
- 2165 Views
Re: I think the TV series handles the problematic Dany/Drogo relationship better
17/08/2012 06:40:12 AM
- 2052 Views
I think it messed it up by showing forced intercourse without the verbal consent Drogo DID obtain
17/08/2012 12:07:14 PM
- 2129 Views
I still find it difficult to read it as anything other than a coerced consent
17/08/2012 01:08:15 PM
- 1976 Views
A perpetrator-less crime then.
17/08/2012 07:26:26 PM
- 2114 Views
Exactly! I'm on board, Cannoli.
18/08/2012 07:45:56 PM
- 1976 Views
You are missing the point.
18/08/2012 11:11:33 PM
- 2087 Views
The later books do add more context and change some of this
19/08/2012 12:08:49 AM
- 2023 Views
Jesus Christ another fucking thread about rape and fantasy.
19/08/2012 01:47:43 AM
- 1277 Views
Perhaps if reading other people's views makes you so angry, you should avoid reading them? *NM*
19/08/2012 02:37:03 PM
- 1099 Views
Nonsense.
19/08/2012 03:33:39 PM
- 1046 Views
Fixed it for you.
19/08/2012 08:22:18 PM
- 1147 Views
Oh, but that takes us back to snoop being right, and I'm sorry, but I just cannot abide that.
19/08/2012 10:56:10 PM
- 1085 Views
Shake the sand out of your vagina bitch. *NM*
20/08/2012 06:35:32 AM
- 1056 Views
Gosh, this is really turning into something fun.
20/08/2012 07:15:01 AM
- 1202 Views
Here I was about to make a "whee misogyny" post. I never get to have fun. *NM*
20/08/2012 09:09:04 AM
- 935 Views
Huh. I just came to the odd realization...
20/08/2012 08:29:56 PM
- 1140 Views
Don't lock it!
21/08/2012 05:11:34 AM
- 1112 Views
Yes, I'm aware, or I might have locked it already.
21/08/2012 06:17:29 PM
- 986 Views
That is the best written and most insightful review of that book I have read
01/09/2012 05:38:00 PM
- 2051 Views
I forgot that I was supposed to read all threads to watch out for Bad Behaviour.
01/09/2012 11:09:52 PM
- 2254 Views