Re: There's "subjective", and there's "lack of education"
cortez1 Send a noteboard - 21/02/2012 09:23:38 PM
I agree with most of your points, and i was not defending Sanderson because I think he's a great writer. I think he is a good fantasy writer who writes enjoyable novels that I like to read. Hell, that's what I think Tolkien is. To find a great fantasy writer I would have to go back to E.R.R. Eddison and his works have too many flaws for me to truly call them great, timeless literature.
But, the point I quibble with is when you say that Dickens is basically not meant to be entertaining to today's audience. I agree, it's not supposed to be Lost, bright and shiny with a thin veneer of deeper meaning. But to me a great work should be timeless not because it is well written, but because it speaks to us. it does not so much entertain us, but grab us and draw us in. We should see our hates and lusts, loves and sorrows reflected on its pages. We should feel it. It should tell us we are not alone,t hat others have been there, felt what we have felt, stumbled where we have stumbled. As for the example of Dickens, I enjoyed, was entertained by, Great Expectations partially because of the mystery and the complexity of the plot, but also because I was interested in Pip's growth throughout the novel. I read it in high school and I saw myself at times in him. A Tale of Two Cities, which to me is an exciting novel, not dense and dull at all, is important and lasting because of how well Dickens makes you feel the sacrifice at the end. It stays with you, haunts you. The characters and their actions give the novel its staying power. Prose should enhance those things, never obscure it.
To use a movie or show metaphor like you did, I am reminded of watching high school students watch Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. The movie looks, sounds, and feels incredibly dated. Students complain. Why is it black and white? This is stupid. This is boring. Then, about halfway through, the complaints die out. By the end, the filibuster scene, every student is silent and staring at the screen in rapt attention. That is great storytelling, with characters, story, and meaning that speaks across time, culture, and trends. Lost will never be that way. Sanderson, as his published work stands now, will never be that way.
But, the point I quibble with is when you say that Dickens is basically not meant to be entertaining to today's audience. I agree, it's not supposed to be Lost, bright and shiny with a thin veneer of deeper meaning. But to me a great work should be timeless not because it is well written, but because it speaks to us. it does not so much entertain us, but grab us and draw us in. We should see our hates and lusts, loves and sorrows reflected on its pages. We should feel it. It should tell us we are not alone,t hat others have been there, felt what we have felt, stumbled where we have stumbled. As for the example of Dickens, I enjoyed, was entertained by, Great Expectations partially because of the mystery and the complexity of the plot, but also because I was interested in Pip's growth throughout the novel. I read it in high school and I saw myself at times in him. A Tale of Two Cities, which to me is an exciting novel, not dense and dull at all, is important and lasting because of how well Dickens makes you feel the sacrifice at the end. It stays with you, haunts you. The characters and their actions give the novel its staying power. Prose should enhance those things, never obscure it.
To use a movie or show metaphor like you did, I am reminded of watching high school students watch Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. The movie looks, sounds, and feels incredibly dated. Students complain. Why is it black and white? This is stupid. This is boring. Then, about halfway through, the complaints die out. By the end, the filibuster scene, every student is silent and staring at the screen in rapt attention. That is great storytelling, with characters, story, and meaning that speaks across time, culture, and trends. Lost will never be that way. Sanderson, as his published work stands now, will never be that way.
Brandon Sanderson plans 36 books in his 'Cosmere' setting
19/02/2012 11:45:24 AM
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Was Sanderson created by the Writng Gods to counter balance GRRM?
19/02/2012 05:13:07 PM
- 1472 Views
I just wish he'd be done with the RJ shit and go back to writing his own books.
19/02/2012 05:40:59 PM
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well, the publication date for that book is set somewhere a year from now..
19/02/2012 07:48:58 PM
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Agreed on both points.....
19/02/2012 08:00:41 PM
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Well, but he is a "fluff" writer from a literary standpoint
20/02/2012 02:16:11 AM
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Not a fluff writer in my mind.....
20/02/2012 03:12:46 AM
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You don't seem to want to hear what I'm saying
20/02/2012 03:51:13 AM
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And I am saying that storytelling is more important.....
20/02/2012 04:52:39 AM
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Storytelling is crucial...
20/02/2012 05:59:57 AM
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A few comments/replies about your post.....
20/02/2012 02:57:16 PM
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You are correct in one respect: all of this is opinion.
20/02/2012 07:01:11 PM
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You sound like one of those nasty "literary elites"!
20/02/2012 08:07:13 PM
- 1319 Views
Literature is subjective
21/02/2012 12:26:35 AM
- 1399 Views
I agree with your point about reading Shakespeare from textbooks.
21/02/2012 03:18:37 AM
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Never heard of Thomas Mann and the real Mona Lisa.....
21/02/2012 03:34:12 AM
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Conversely, why should I trust the likes of you?
21/02/2012 06:19:18 AM
- 1530 Views
Oh, come now...
21/02/2012 10:35:18 AM
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When it comes to evaluating schema, I'm not going to trust someone who only had English 101
21/02/2012 11:26:03 AM
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Larry = snob
21/02/2012 05:34:22 PM
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Amusing
21/02/2012 07:49:20 PM
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Wow, you lack basic reading comprehension skills.....
21/02/2012 08:29:24 PM
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No, I read that and didn't disagree that there couldn't be works that had both (read other comments)
21/02/2012 09:23:31 PM
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Uh...Faust is a play. Doctor Faustus is a novel. The former is Goethe, the latter is Mann. *NM*
22/02/2012 12:00:22 AM
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I suppose fame is relative, but the most famous Doctor Faustus, to me personally, is indeed a play.
22/02/2012 07:29:59 PM
- 1212 Views
Wait, let's look at the gross disconnect between two statements.
21/02/2012 01:59:34 PM
- 1416 Views
So true about the Mona Lisa.
21/02/2012 07:57:41 PM
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Yes, I was at the Louvre and you are right.....
21/02/2012 08:32:40 PM
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This is where your own rethoric defeats you...
23/02/2012 06:38:54 AM
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Slow down - it may not be the current elites that are hyping it.....
23/02/2012 05:12:47 PM
- 1151 Views
Re: Slow down - it may not be the current elites that are hyping it.....
13/03/2012 03:10:12 AM
- 1414 Views
There's "subjective", and there's "lack of education"
21/02/2012 08:58:11 PM
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Re: There's "subjective", and there's "lack of education"
21/02/2012 09:23:38 PM
- 1470 Views
Seems like an awful lot.
19/02/2012 08:11:22 PM
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Sanderson is a machine. Also, the books (so far) have been wildly different
20/02/2012 12:50:41 AM
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Re: Sanderson is a machine. Also, the books (so far) have been wildly different
20/02/2012 03:00:17 AM
- 1510 Views
Same here- I didn't know about the Cosmere at all until I started poking around online
21/02/2012 03:25:36 AM
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Likewise. After reading Mistborn and Warbreaker I started looking into him more
21/02/2012 06:20:09 PM
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It's likely to stay that way...
20/02/2012 06:22:50 AM
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Confirmation on the Mistborn trilogies. I am so happy. *NM*
20/02/2012 05:38:23 AM
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I am thrilled to see that there will be more stories about Wax and Wayne.....
20/02/2012 03:46:37 PM
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The one issue I had with that book...
21/02/2012 06:21:29 PM
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