Active Users:342 Time:19/04/2025 05:48:37 PM
You are correct in one respect: all of this is opinion. Tom Send a noteboard - 20/02/2012 07:01:11 PM
However, your definition of "fluff" is at odds with the consensus opinion of a great many people who read literature. What you are calling "fluff" is material that may not be appreciated if you don't take the effort, which you clearly say you do not. You want your books to be more or less effortless. That's fine.

Clearly, all appreciation of art, literature, music, movies or the like is subjective, but we talk about things being worthy expressions when we build a consensus that endures over an extended period of time.

Consensus on the worth of works of literature is not something that "literary elites" come up with just to feel superior or to lord over other people. Individual academics may certainly do that, but the general reason why "serious literature" is considered "serious literature" is because it has enduring meaning and value that transcends its time. Lots of other people were writing plays during the time of Shakespeare, but we don't remember them because they wrote poorly, or had nothing to say to us.

Railing against "elites" as a political tool is one thing, but at some point, if you reject consensus in literature completely you are descending into garden-variety anti-intellectualism.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
This message last edited by Tom on 20/02/2012 at 07:02:34 PM
Reply to message
Brandon Sanderson plans 36 books in his 'Cosmere' setting - 19/02/2012 11:45:24 AM 4777 Views
Was Sanderson created by the Writng Gods to counter balance GRRM? - 19/02/2012 05:13:07 PM 1566 Views
A modern Moorcock, eh ? *NM* - 19/02/2012 05:39:00 PM 688 Views
I just wish he'd be done with the RJ shit and go back to writing his own books. - 19/02/2012 05:40:59 PM 1492 Views
Agreed on both points..... - 19/02/2012 08:00:41 PM 1449 Views
Well, but he is a "fluff" writer from a literary standpoint - 20/02/2012 02:16:11 AM 1489 Views
Not a fluff writer in my mind..... - 20/02/2012 03:12:46 AM 1467 Views
You don't seem to want to hear what I'm saying - 20/02/2012 03:51:13 AM 1421 Views
And I am saying that storytelling is more important..... - 20/02/2012 04:52:39 AM 1544 Views
Storytelling is crucial... - 20/02/2012 05:59:57 AM 1540 Views
A few comments/replies about your post..... - 20/02/2012 02:57:16 PM 1480 Views
You are correct in one respect: all of this is opinion. - 20/02/2012 07:01:11 PM 1467 Views
You sound like one of those nasty "literary elites"! - 20/02/2012 08:07:13 PM 1416 Views
Literature is subjective - 21/02/2012 12:26:35 AM 1484 Views
Very well said..... *NM* - 21/02/2012 01:12:40 AM 655 Views
I agree with your point about reading Shakespeare from textbooks. - 21/02/2012 03:18:37 AM 1528 Views
Never heard of Thomas Mann and the real Mona Lisa..... - 21/02/2012 03:34:12 AM 1363 Views
Conversely, why should I trust the likes of you? - 21/02/2012 06:19:18 AM 1653 Views
Oh, come now... - 21/02/2012 10:35:18 AM 1542 Views
When it comes to evaluating schema, I'm not going to trust someone who only had English 101 - 21/02/2012 11:26:03 AM 1365 Views
Mostly agreed - 21/02/2012 09:00:51 PM 1425 Views
Mostly true - 21/02/2012 09:27:09 PM 1449 Views
Re: Mostly true - 22/02/2012 12:58:55 AM 1282 Views
Larry = snob - 21/02/2012 05:34:22 PM 1418 Views
Amusing - 21/02/2012 07:49:20 PM 1417 Views
Wow, you lack basic reading comprehension skills..... - 21/02/2012 08:29:24 PM 1402 Views
Uh...Faust is a play. Doctor Faustus is a novel. The former is Goethe, the latter is Mann. *NM* - 22/02/2012 12:00:22 AM 673 Views
D'uh.....notice the smiley face. Good grief! *NM* - 22/02/2012 12:50:23 AM 687 Views
Just checking... *NM* - 22/02/2012 01:07:40 AM 637 Views
Wait, let's look at the gross disconnect between two statements. - 21/02/2012 01:59:34 PM 1473 Views
I have not blindly rejected the literary elites..... - 21/02/2012 05:27:35 PM 1460 Views
So true about the Mona Lisa. - 21/02/2012 07:57:41 PM 1519 Views
Yes, I was at the Louvre and you are right..... - 21/02/2012 08:32:40 PM 1417 Views
This is where your own rethoric defeats you... - 23/02/2012 06:38:54 AM 1424 Views
Slow down - it may not be the current elites that are hyping it..... - 23/02/2012 05:12:47 PM 1230 Views
There's "subjective", and there's "lack of education" - 21/02/2012 08:58:11 PM 1421 Views
Re: There's "subjective", and there's "lack of education" - 21/02/2012 09:23:38 PM 1553 Views
Thank you. That was excellent. *NM* - 20/02/2012 07:01:31 PM 727 Views
Seems like an awful lot. - 19/02/2012 08:11:22 PM 1648 Views
Sanderson is a machine. Also, the books (so far) have been wildly different - 20/02/2012 12:50:41 AM 1521 Views
I thought he was just recycling the name at first. *NM* - 20/02/2012 02:09:57 AM 737 Views
It's likely to stay that way... - 20/02/2012 06:22:50 AM 1519 Views
I think he can actually do both - 20/02/2012 03:31:00 PM 1572 Views
Re: I think he can actually do both - 20/02/2012 06:34:30 PM 1646 Views
I love it. - 19/02/2012 10:00:28 PM 1376 Views
Confirmation on the Mistborn trilogies. I am so happy. *NM* - 20/02/2012 05:38:23 AM 634 Views
I am thrilled to see that there will be more stories about Wax and Wayne..... - 20/02/2012 03:46:37 PM 1283 Views
The one issue I had with that book... - 21/02/2012 06:21:29 PM 1379 Views
Waxillium! *NM* - 21/02/2012 10:47:03 PM 644 Views
WAXILLIUM! *NM* - 04/03/2012 07:39:37 AM 854 Views
Why is that an issue? I think those names are great. - 23/02/2012 05:31:51 AM 1348 Views
Do you not like puns? *NM* - 06/03/2012 01:38:31 PM 728 Views
BS- The Fantasy Stephen King? - 21/12/2012 08:12:21 PM 1165 Views

Reply to Message