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I'm rarely ever offended Larry Send a noteboard - 01/02/2012 01:54:58 AM
As for Tolkien, are his views any different than how many of us (or our family/friends) are when it comes to someone of a different ethnic/social background? That's the real issue, I suspect and I would answer "Not really." I have my own race/class-based prejudices to work on, so why is there such defensiveness when it comes to the fact that an author made some comments and wrote some characters that current readers may find to be objectionable? Best to work on removing those specks from our eyes, I think.

I really have only one question. If we're saying that we can see how some would find it racist/sexist (even having an interesting conversation on the various degrees of personal agreement or disagreement), and one of us is even devil's advocating for just that side, which specks would those be, precisely?


Depends. Are you focused on perceived issues with the person talking about the issue or on the object of that issue? If it is the former, then there is more self-examination to be done, I would guess.

I suppose maybe I'm not allowed to comment on it, since I can be properly racist while she cannot.


Why does this rile you so? It doesn't bother me at all because I know that I enjoy all sorts of privileges (and for the record, she notes her own in the post I'll link to below) and that sometimes I have to have these things pointed out to me to make sure I don't say/do some really stupid things, because that really could damage working relationships with students from different backgrounds.

(I'm not trying to be snarky, but I don't think you understand just how far this person has gotten under my skin. It's not about Tolkien, though I obviously have opinions there as well. It's about how racism does exist and how people OF ALL COLORS are working to change that. If anybody can work to help and try to illuminate the masses, we should all be able to be part of the conversation. I feel very strongly that the kind of crap that writer was spouting damages exactly what she might say she's trying to foster. As it is, I get the really strong vibe that she's fostering nothing but her own opinion of herself.)


Thing is, sometimes one "wars" for reasons that aren't obviously harmful, but which end up being so. Charity begins at home and before I tell anyone that they need to reform, I best make sure I'm trying to reform myself. Her comments make me think but they don't make me react because I consider things beforehand. I suspect part of the issue here is unfamiliarity with the months-spanning discussions on her blog. I've been following it since June or July and she discusses more than just one or two topics. I don't always agree with them, but then again, I don't always agree with myself after a period of time :P

There are two main paths to go from here: 1) Consider why the reactions are occurring and do something about it, or 2) Shrug it off. Being irritated and doing nothing leads to what? That's not for me to answer, except for myself alone.

edit for clarification again: I'm talking primarily about her twitter conversation, not only her blog entry about Tolkien.


If you're reading her Twitter conversation (and I presume some of her discussions with me), you might have noticed that often there is a lot going on there that is not based in anger or frustration. I think she'd be an interesting person to talk global literature with, as there aren't too many who discusses Twain and Nabokov and their writing vis-a-vis Tolkien.
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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The racist elements in Tolkien's writing - 29/01/2012 01:31:02 PM 2494 Views
She has some points, of course. - 29/01/2012 02:25:32 PM 1274 Views
Quite a few points - 29/01/2012 02:40:45 PM 1368 Views
Re: Quite a few points - 29/01/2012 04:59:11 PM 1132 Views
Mostly agreed with the article, but thought she undermined herself with her own racism. - 29/01/2012 02:50:11 PM 1341 Views
I wish I could agree with you, but I can't in full - 29/01/2012 02:58:05 PM 1333 Views
I'm not bothered by the tone. Annoyance is justified. - 29/01/2012 03:03:07 PM 1273 Views
Re: I wish I could agree with you, but I can't in full - 30/01/2012 02:11:07 PM 1284 Views
Do you really believe that? - 30/01/2012 02:44:19 PM 1349 Views
Just read your Twitter convo... nice try, but looks like wasted effort. *NM* - 29/01/2012 10:37:08 PM 578 Views
Yes. - 29/01/2012 10:41:15 PM 1021 Views
Oh, also: - 29/01/2012 03:07:03 PM 1087 Views
Well, I'll be honest. - 29/01/2012 10:34:46 PM 1216 Views
Let me try to summarize some of her points with the invective filtered out, then. - 29/01/2012 10:48:24 PM 1411 Views
Thank you. - 29/01/2012 11:10:13 PM 1441 Views
What the hell, might as well go and play devil's advocate, right? - 30/01/2012 04:50:30 PM 1348 Views
I expected that. - 30/01/2012 05:39:59 PM 1246 Views
Of course you did. I'm predictable that way. - 30/01/2012 10:28:10 PM 1235 Views
Re: Of course you did. I'm predictable that way. - 31/01/2012 12:39:46 AM 1134 Views
Re: Of course you did. I'm predictable that way. - 31/01/2012 08:38:46 PM 1178 Views
I <3 you, but there are several very key things we are not going to agree on. - 31/01/2012 10:02:22 PM 1598 Views
Oh. - 31/01/2012 11:07:52 PM 1242 Views
- 01/02/2012 12:17:59 AM 1350 Views
Hmm? - 31/01/2012 10:10:22 PM 1168 Views
Yeah. I got to reading Encyclopedia of Arda just now, and it told me the same thing. - 31/01/2012 10:35:54 PM 1091 Views
As a sort of group answer (I've been mostly absent from forums the past two days) - 31/01/2012 10:45:55 PM 1432 Views
I don't mind if you tell me I'm out of line here, but - 31/01/2012 11:55:04 PM 1272 Views
I'm rarely ever offended - 01/02/2012 01:54:58 AM 1459 Views
She was referring specifically to the Twitter "conversation" I had with the blogger. - 01/02/2012 09:05:28 AM 1242 Views
Yes. - 01/02/2012 10:47:22 AM 1372 Views
It makes me wonder what she thinks is happening in Zimbabwe, for example. - 01/02/2012 11:13:11 AM 1408 Views
I've been thinking about that. - 01/02/2012 11:29:18 AM 1198 Views
Re: I've been thinking about that. - 01/02/2012 11:40:11 AM 1468 Views
We're nuts. - 01/02/2012 03:09:15 PM 1204 Views
I know that - 01/02/2012 11:15:48 AM 1262 Views
That blog post was mostly good, but the exception is a rather large one. - 01/02/2012 08:35:57 PM 1120 Views
Do you mean exception*S*? - 02/02/2012 04:27:03 AM 1192 Views
The Hobbit came out in 1937. - 30/01/2012 01:35:45 AM 1167 Views
She hates Tolkien's writings to begin with ... - 30/01/2012 06:34:29 AM 1309 Views
The tone of the article is massively annoying - 30/01/2012 06:45:19 AM 1346 Views
I laughed while reading it - 30/01/2012 04:30:50 PM 1215 Views

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