Shall we get into how I don't agree with you about martain again 
dacole Send a noteboard - 03/01/2012 12:04:14 AM
dacole Send a noteboard - 03/01/2012 12:04:14 AM
For sci-fi, it's very easy to have novels with little to no violence. Practically anything by Arthur C. Clarke (Childhood's End, Songs of Distant Earth, etc) A bunch of Tanith Lee's science fiction books have little to no violence. Just because there's no overt violence doesn't mean there's no conflict. Since sci-fi's too easy I'll switch over to fantasy.
If Lois Mcmaster Bujold qualifies as fantasy then some of her books will qualify but she's probably more sci fi than fantasy. I don't recall much violence in books by Vera Nazarian or Guy Gavriel Kay.
It would probably be best to be more specific about what we're considering as violence- like if you want to exclude books with battle scenes of an army pitted against some threat that go on for pages. If there's one really gruesome and disturbing scene such as a rape- does that make the whole book violent? For me, it does if it's treated casually- if we don't know or don't care about the perspective of the victim. (ex: Martin) Tanith Lee sometimes has rape in her books but I'm fine with the way she goes about it. Hart's Hope by Card is an example. The thing about Hart's Hope is that it doesn't real like a book Card wrote, it reads like a Tanith Lee book. It's kind of incredible.
I'm really going off on a tangent here but I find the very existence of Hart's Hope by Orson Scott Card just fascinating. And the reviews... The most helpful review on amazon says that the book has you pulling out your hair but if you can make it to the end at least the conclusion is satisfying and just. Which... is really not how I would describe it. I think I've read before that Card Card's fans don't really like Hart's Hope and pretend it doesn't exist since it's so different from anything else he ever wrote.
However, I just found a more positive quote from Card himself that although Hart's Hope is his least bought novel, it has some of his best writing and he's very proud of it. How did he do it? Did he just have to just get it out in order to be able to go back to writing fantasy for mormons? He created a work of art, just not for his audience.
If Lois Mcmaster Bujold qualifies as fantasy then some of her books will qualify but she's probably more sci fi than fantasy. I don't recall much violence in books by Vera Nazarian or Guy Gavriel Kay.
It would probably be best to be more specific about what we're considering as violence- like if you want to exclude books with battle scenes of an army pitted against some threat that go on for pages. If there's one really gruesome and disturbing scene such as a rape- does that make the whole book violent? For me, it does if it's treated casually- if we don't know or don't care about the perspective of the victim. (ex: Martin) Tanith Lee sometimes has rape in her books but I'm fine with the way she goes about it. Hart's Hope by Card is an example. The thing about Hart's Hope is that it doesn't real like a book Card wrote, it reads like a Tanith Lee book. It's kind of incredible.
I'm really going off on a tangent here but I find the very existence of Hart's Hope by Orson Scott Card just fascinating. And the reviews... The most helpful review on amazon says that the book has you pulling out your hair but if you can make it to the end at least the conclusion is satisfying and just. Which... is really not how I would describe it. I think I've read before that Card Card's fans don't really like Hart's Hope and pretend it doesn't exist since it's so different from anything else he ever wrote.
However, I just found a more positive quote from Card himself that although Hart's Hope is his least bought novel, it has some of his best writing and he's very proud of it. How did he do it? Did he just have to just get it out in order to be able to go back to writing fantasy for mormons? He created a work of art, just not for his audience.
So, the main topic of conversation here recently has been the amount of violence in fantasy. So we can move beyond sounding like old men complaining about Wolfeinstein or Doom, lets think about what a fantasy book without violence would look like. Where would the plot/conflict come from? What other books could we look at to get an idea of how to write one?
I don't write and in no way am I about to start but who knows maybe if we prime someones imagination enough they might try. (This might make a good post for you blog Larry not sure).
My first thoughts: Sci-fi has a few of these. Ursula Le'Guin has most of them. The Lathe of Heaven really doesn't have much violence and the dispossed really only has one scene of it. Maybe character studies like these or political novels would be a way to go?
Gabriel Marquez does fantastical realism that is without violence or much of it. 100 years of solitude didn't have much violence really (and was plenty odd enough to be called fantasy in my book).
Thoughts?
I don't write and in no way am I about to start but who knows maybe if we prime someones imagination enough they might try. (This might make a good post for you blog Larry not sure).
My first thoughts: Sci-fi has a few of these. Ursula Le'Guin has most of them. The Lathe of Heaven really doesn't have much violence and the dispossed really only has one scene of it. Maybe character studies like these or political novels would be a way to go?
Gabriel Marquez does fantastical realism that is without violence or much of it. 100 years of solitude didn't have much violence really (and was plenty odd enough to be called fantasy in my book).
Thoughts?
As I like much of card (Ender's game is very good and the books after it are even better) I will have to check out the one you mention at some point. Rest I have not heard of but will have to check them out to. Been awhile since I read childhood's end but there was some violence in it wasn't there? Ranma would be the example I would use for a book by him that doesn't have any.
Fantasy novel without violence - what would it look like?
- 30/12/2011 06:46:04 PM
1236 Views
It's definitely easier for science fiction...
- 30/12/2011 07:45:21 PM
1402 Views
Shall we get into how I don't agree with you about martain again
- 03/01/2012 12:04:14 AM
1158 Views
- 03/01/2012 12:04:14 AM
1158 Views
I don't believe ...
- 30/12/2011 07:51:34 PM
1220 Views
Re: I don't believe ...
- 03/01/2012 12:06:24 AM
933 Views
Fantasy is really just one of three things when you break it down.
- 05/01/2012 02:53:28 AM
1052 Views
It would be rectangular and suck
- 31/12/2011 07:51:26 AM
1022 Views
Re: It would be rectangular and suck
- 03/01/2012 12:07:27 AM
1058 Views
I didn't say it's the acceptable choice. It is the best way, however, to get a definitive resolution
- 04/01/2012 11:22:02 PM
1077 Views
There are lots of good non-violent fantasy novels.
- 03/01/2012 01:34:09 AM
2274 Views