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Re: The Gringotts book one reference fits into the pattern. Camilla Send a noteboard - 14/12/2010 10:27:35 PM
Is Rowling successful in creating doubt as to whether Dumbledore is really dead? I never bought into it, but that was in part because I knew she had stated that no one would return from the dead in her books. I cannot help think that this would have been a strong red herring if I had not known that. But I think I would also be disappointed when it turned out Dumbledore was not back. As it is, I like the Aberforth enigma.

I don't really remember what I thought at the time, but I don't think she really wants the reader to believe that. It's again one of those matters of "no, you can't possibly do that without undermining yourself horribly", on par with the "no, Snape cannot be evil".


True. But while it would undermine everything, she did manage to create doubt regarding Snape's allegiances in a lot of people.

I like how they rob Gringott's after so much was made of the impossibility of it in book 1. That was obviously in order to build up the danger of Death Eaters, not to lay the ground for book 7, but I like how it is taken up again. It gives me a sense of full circle. Or, that is the wrong expression, I think. A sort of development circle, where going back to the beginning makes you realise how much has changed.

We have a long list now of reminiscences and references to book one in this book, no doubt all intentional. Griphook himself also appeared in that book, as was mentioned earlier.


Indeed.

Bill's comment about how it would be less dangerous to break into Gringotts than to renege on a promise to a goblin is great. I do wonder how he'd have reacted if Harry had answered "what if I do both at the same time?"


Hehe. I know!
I do wonder how much Bill guessed, though. It makes sense that he would realise the reason why Harry was sequestered with a Gringott goblin.

And while we're on fitting comments, Aberforth's scathing comments about their suitability of Albus' big quest seem somewhat like an apologia to me, the classic trick of having a character inside the book point out weaknesses in the plot so as to undermine critics who wanted to point them out themselves. But since it does make sense in context, it's not particularly bothersome.


Heh. Yes. We'll get to that in the next couple of chapters :P
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book 7 - The Deathly Hallows - 24/11/2010 07:47:44 PM 3824 Views
Suggestions - tell us what we could do better for this final discussion. - 24/11/2010 07:48:22 PM 1660 Views
Spoilers for book 7? - 24/11/2010 09:07:28 PM 1803 Views
Re: Spoilers for book 7? - 24/11/2010 09:13:42 PM 1636 Views
*cough* - 16/12/2010 01:05:05 PM 1795 Views
The series as a whole: overall thoughts about the Harry Potter universe and all it contains - 24/11/2010 07:49:21 PM 1707 Views
I think it was/is so successful because... - 06/12/2010 11:06:59 PM 1782 Views
Overall thoughts for The Deathly Hallows - 24/11/2010 07:50:12 PM 1773 Views
This might be the only book other than the first where I actually like Harry. - 30/11/2010 03:13:25 PM 1690 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 30/11/2010 03:22:20 PM 928 Views
Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie! - 04/12/2010 03:45:24 PM 1817 Views
Re: Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie! - 04/12/2010 10:33:03 PM 1827 Views
all the un-evil ones. - 04/12/2010 11:54:22 PM 1714 Views
Re: all the un-evil ones. - 04/12/2010 11:57:09 PM 1786 Views
It's not as boring as I thought it was. - 06/12/2010 10:52:17 PM 1638 Views
Having finished it again... it's good, at times great, but not the best book in the series, imho. - 26/12/2010 08:19:47 PM 1922 Views
Yes and no - 26/12/2010 09:21:11 PM 1815 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Dark Lord Ascending, In Memorian, The Dursleys Departing. - 24/11/2010 07:51:29 PM 1768 Views
Characters: Voldemort, the Death Eaters, Harry, Dodge, Dumbledore, Skeeter & the Dursleys - 24/11/2010 07:52:55 PM 1804 Views
Snape, Draco, Lucius, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Ms Burbage, Dumbledore, and the Dursleys. - 24/11/2010 11:46:16 PM 1898 Views
Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore. - 25/11/2010 04:44:36 PM 1962 Views
Re: Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore. - 25/11/2010 04:53:25 PM 1842 Views
I always forget Bellatrix is married. - 26/11/2010 03:28:24 AM 2131 Views
As Katie said, the husband is still around. - 26/11/2010 10:56:30 AM 1867 Views
Re: As Katie said, the husband is still around. - 26/11/2010 11:12:18 AM 1854 Views
Dudley - 30/11/2010 01:40:09 PM 1896 Views
Re: As Katie said, the husband is still around. - 06/12/2010 08:41:56 PM 1758 Views
Re: Charity Burbage - 25/11/2010 06:47:43 PM 1765 Views
Re: Charity Burbage - 25/11/2010 06:48:52 PM 1693 Views
Re: Charity Burbage - 27/11/2010 11:35:48 AM 1825 Views
Re: Charity Burbage - 27/11/2010 11:37:28 AM 1796 Views
Dudley - 30/11/2010 03:16:25 PM 1694 Views
Re: Dudley - 30/11/2010 03:23:02 PM 1853 Views
And hated that it's not in the movie - 04/12/2010 04:15:31 PM 1811 Views
Plotting, writing, early themes. - 24/11/2010 07:53:33 PM 1765 Views
*spoilers for book 7* - 24/11/2010 11:47:19 PM 1898 Views
Correction - 25/11/2010 12:38:57 AM 1787 Views
Re: Correction - 25/11/2010 12:40:48 AM 1735 Views
Re: *spoilers for book 7* <--- - 27/11/2010 11:42:47 AM 1986 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 24/11/2010 07:53:46 PM 773 Views
The epigraphs. - 24/11/2010 10:06:58 PM 1870 Views
I had considered making a separate section just for them. - 27/11/2010 11:44:01 AM 1693 Views
other stuff - 24/11/2010 11:47:54 PM 1635 Views
I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links. - 25/11/2010 04:26:58 PM 1647 Views
Re: I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links. - 27/11/2010 01:20:44 AM 1725 Views
Isn't it "the dear departed" and "dearly beloved"? *NM* - 26/11/2010 11:32:22 PM 878 Views
Maybe? - 26/11/2010 11:34:32 PM 1600 Views
Chapters 4-6: The Seven Potters, The Fallen Warrior, The Ghoul in Pyjamas *NM* - 26/11/2010 07:27:53 PM 882 Views
Characters: Harry, the Order, Hedwig, Mr & Mrs Tonks, Voldemort, etc - 26/11/2010 07:29:48 PM 1760 Views
Re: the film & Hermione - 26/11/2010 08:38:05 PM 1614 Views
Oh yes. - 26/11/2010 08:46:23 PM 1726 Views
Re: the film & Hermione - 27/11/2010 01:24:40 AM 1679 Views
Re: the film & Hermione - 27/11/2010 12:01:19 PM 1626 Views
Me too - 04/12/2010 03:40:38 PM 1666 Views
The Delacours - 30/11/2010 03:01:35 PM 1659 Views
Re: The Delacours - 30/11/2010 03:23:33 PM 1600 Views
The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things. - 26/11/2010 07:30:35 PM 1627 Views
Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things. - 27/11/2010 11:59:36 AM 1993 Views
Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things. - 30/11/2010 03:05:38 PM 1845 Views
Yes, Dumbledore gives a very complex answer about the wand thing - 01/12/2010 08:44:57 PM 1624 Views
The Portkeys make a certain amount of sense, actually. - 06/12/2010 08:56:24 PM 2057 Views
Good point! - 06/12/2010 09:59:11 PM 1729 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM* - 26/11/2010 07:30:49 PM 877 Views
Re: Any other thoughts? - 27/11/2010 01:30:12 AM 1672 Views
Re: Any other thoughts? - 27/11/2010 03:30:26 AM 1648 Views
Re: Any other thoughts? - 27/11/2010 12:04:21 PM 1715 Views
Mr Weasley's additions to the motorbike are hilarious. - 27/11/2010 06:48:50 PM 1722 Views
Chapters 7-9: The Will of Albus Dumbledore, The Wedding, A Place to Hide - 29/11/2010 06:39:52 PM 1595 Views
The characters: usual suspects, Scrimgeour, Doge, Krum, Luna, Xenophilius, etc. - 29/11/2010 06:41:41 PM 1707 Views
Mrs Weasley, Ginny, Lupin, Mr Lovegood, Luna, Hermione - 29/11/2010 06:56:31 PM 1788 Views
Re: Mrs Weasley, Ginny, Lupin, Mr Lovegood, Luna, Hermione - 30/11/2010 01:54:33 PM 1838 Views
I just realized something about Krum. - 06/12/2010 09:00:28 PM 1678 Views
Re: I just realized something about Krum. - 06/12/2010 09:55:00 PM 1642 Views
Re: I just realized something about Krum. - 06/12/2010 10:06:01 PM 1817 Views
The action. - 29/11/2010 06:42:10 PM 1595 Views
Plotting, mainly. - 29/11/2010 06:57:06 PM 1720 Views
Hermione and obliviate. - 30/11/2010 02:23:51 PM 1680 Views
Re: Hermione and obliviate. - 30/11/2010 03:24:06 PM 1720 Views
I think this was a Rowling mistake. It happens - 01/12/2010 08:32:25 PM 1745 Views
I wondered that same thing. *NM* - 02/12/2010 05:09:49 AM 887 Views
I might have my timeline mixed up - 04/12/2010 04:12:50 PM 1728 Views
Re: I might have my timeline mixed up - 09/12/2010 02:38:44 AM 1736 Views
Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point... - 06/12/2010 08:33:02 PM 1861 Views
Re: Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point... - 06/12/2010 09:52:59 PM 1811 Views
IIRC - 06/12/2010 10:06:23 PM 1889 Views
Re: IIRC - 06/12/2010 10:09:44 PM 1793 Views
Please, sir, may I have some more? *NM* - 29/11/2010 06:44:14 PM 830 Views
I want magic for my wedding *NM* - 29/11/2010 06:57:29 PM 878 Views
I'll see what I can do. *NM* - 30/11/2010 02:58:17 PM 924 Views
I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers. - 30/11/2010 02:59:04 PM 1736 Views
Re: I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers. - 30/11/2010 03:24:35 PM 1609 Views
And back in book 4. Dumbledore sends Hagrid a message like this - 01/12/2010 08:33:46 PM 1677 Views
Chapters 10-12: Kreacher's Tale, The Bribe, Magic is Might - 01/12/2010 11:41:40 PM 1575 Views
Characters: more of the trio, Kreacher, Mundungus, RAB and Umbridge - 01/12/2010 11:42:34 PM 1613 Views
Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour - 02/12/2010 09:11:21 AM 1908 Views
I'm not sure why we're supposed to be surprised about Scrimgeour. - 06/12/2010 09:46:27 PM 1910 Views
Not surprising, perhaps. - 06/12/2010 09:56:58 PM 1698 Views
Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk. - 06/12/2010 09:54:53 PM 1700 Views
Re: Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk. - 06/12/2010 10:05:57 PM 1729 Views
Re: Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk. - 06/12/2010 10:10:27 PM 1655 Views
And? And? And? *NM* - 01/12/2010 11:43:46 PM 876 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Muggle-Born Registration Commission, The Thief, The Goblin's Revenge *NM* - 04/12/2010 11:01:25 AM 1028 Views
Plotting, writing, theming. - 04/12/2010 11:08:47 AM 1870 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 04/12/2010 11:10:52 AM 908 Views
It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye. - 06/12/2010 10:09:04 PM 1724 Views
Good catch - 06/12/2010 10:19:21 PM 1599 Views
Chapters 16-18: Godric's Hollow, Bathilda's Secret, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore - 06/12/2010 09:57:00 PM 1726 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Bathilda, Dumbledore and others - 06/12/2010 09:57:52 PM 1812 Views
Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:02:13 PM 1847 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:14:26 PM 1916 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:18:15 PM 2008 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:34:15 PM 1702 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:36:18 PM 1723 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:39:58 PM 1997 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:42:27 PM 1584 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:46:58 PM 1640 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:48:59 PM 1601 Views
I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right. - 07/12/2010 08:47:11 PM 1608 Views
Re: I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right. - 07/12/2010 08:55:54 PM 1655 Views
True, but still. *NM* - 07/12/2010 10:02:00 PM 850 Views
Lights! Camera! Action! - 06/12/2010 09:59:52 PM 1708 Views
Hallows and Fidelius Charm. - 06/12/2010 10:03:33 PM 1839 Views
That could be it... or some snake senses, vibrations and all? - 07/12/2010 10:03:16 PM 1648 Views
But wait! There's more! - 06/12/2010 10:00:34 PM 1666 Views
As nutty as squirrel poo. - 06/12/2010 10:04:11 PM 1355 Views
Re: As nutty as squirrel poo. - 06/12/2010 10:32:04 PM 1686 Views
Oh, hadn't realized that yet either... nice one. *NM* - 07/12/2010 08:54:18 PM 883 Views
Chapters 19-21: The Silver Doe, Xenophilius Lovegood, The Tale of the Three Brothers - 08/12/2010 08:47:04 PM 1748 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Lovegood ... and not many more. *NM* - 08/12/2010 08:49:28 PM 930 Views
Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 09/12/2010 12:01:57 AM 1834 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 09/12/2010 03:04:11 PM 1874 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 09/12/2010 08:03:05 PM 1732 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 09/12/2010 11:48:08 PM 1945 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 10/12/2010 08:44:01 PM 1784 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 10/12/2010 09:00:44 PM 1712 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 10/12/2010 09:16:48 PM 1696 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 10/12/2010 09:19:38 PM 1713 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 19/12/2010 06:58:04 PM 1656 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 20/12/2010 09:36:17 AM 1685 Views
What was that again about Hermione not being so good at thinking on her feet? - 09/12/2010 07:52:23 PM 1740 Views
Very, very true. *NM* - 09/12/2010 11:54:06 PM 857 Views
Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last. - 08/12/2010 08:50:53 PM 1817 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last. - 09/12/2010 12:04:37 AM 1716 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last. - 09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM 1698 Views
I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up". - 09/12/2010 06:52:29 PM 1672 Views
Re: I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up". - 09/12/2010 11:49:38 PM 1659 Views
Re: I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up". - 10/12/2010 04:18:25 AM 1851 Views
up up down down left right left right b a select start. look at me I have 99 horcruxes! - 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM 1411 Views
It is, but the general idea was clear. *NM* - 10/12/2010 08:45:55 PM 847 Views
They're not so annoying yet, now. - 09/12/2010 06:56:46 PM 1604 Views
Re: They're not so annoying yet, now. - 09/12/2010 11:52:02 PM 1806 Views
Anything else you'd like to say? *NM* - 08/12/2010 08:51:31 PM 859 Views
Chapters 22-24: The Deathly Hallows, Malfoy Manor, The Wandmaker. - 10/12/2010 09:11:32 PM 1606 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Malfoys, Dobby, a number of others. *NM* - 10/12/2010 09:12:30 PM 906 Views
Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore - 10/12/2010 11:23:09 PM 1915 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore - 13/12/2010 08:47:27 PM 1731 Views
On a side note about wands - 14/12/2010 06:05:13 PM 1766 Views
Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too. - 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM 1785 Views
Harry: - 19/12/2010 11:14:51 PM 1649 Views
Re: Harry: - 20/12/2010 09:42:31 AM 1708 Views
Re: Harry: - 20/12/2010 12:54:14 PM 1760 Views
Other comments or discoveries? *NM* - 10/12/2010 09:14:38 PM 869 Views
Chapters 25-27: Shell Cottage, Gringotts, The Final Hiding Place - 13/12/2010 10:03:15 PM 1649 Views
Plot, action, etc. *NM* - 13/12/2010 10:04:02 PM 854 Views
red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle. - 14/12/2010 05:17:11 PM 1565 Views
The Gringotts book one reference fits into the pattern. - 14/12/2010 10:13:50 PM 1801 Views
Re: The Gringotts book one reference fits into the pattern. - 14/12/2010 10:27:35 PM 1838 Views
Re: red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle. - 20/12/2010 03:37:36 PM 2009 Views
Re: red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle. - 20/12/2010 07:37:07 PM 1748 Views
Other things. *NM* - 13/12/2010 10:04:23 PM 765 Views
Film stuff - 14/12/2010 05:17:18 PM 1661 Views
Excellent point. - 14/12/2010 10:05:01 PM 1646 Views
Re: Excellent point. - 14/12/2010 10:09:53 PM 1660 Views
Are we talking about film or book here? - 20/12/2010 12:58:46 AM 1562 Views
Both, ideally. - 20/12/2010 09:43:06 AM 1595 Views
Sometimes Rowling's parallels are far too simplistic and unsophisticated. - 20/12/2010 03:39:50 PM 1666 Views
I had not made the goblin/Jews connection *NM* - 22/12/2010 09:31:59 AM 872 Views
Seconded. - 26/12/2010 08:29:44 PM 1774 Views
Chapters 28-30: The Missing Mirror, The Lost Diadem, The Sacking of Severus Snape *NM* - 16/12/2010 01:07:20 PM 894 Views
Characters *NM* - 16/12/2010 01:07:31 PM 827 Views
Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins - 16/12/2010 11:52:46 PM 1927 Views
Various characters. - 20/12/2010 01:10:42 AM 1702 Views
I think Percy's coming to his senses makes sense enough... - 26/12/2010 08:47:10 PM 2021 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins - 20/12/2010 05:16:13 PM 1778 Views
I seem to recall Dumbledore making a comment... - 26/12/2010 08:34:03 PM 1881 Views
Yes - 26/12/2010 09:18:56 PM 1690 Views
Writing, action, plot, theme, yadda yadda yadda. *NM* - 16/12/2010 01:08:04 PM 849 Views
red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good - 16/12/2010 11:53:56 PM 1753 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good - 20/12/2010 05:38:46 PM 1732 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good - 20/12/2010 11:06:01 PM 1915 Views
Other things. *NM* - 16/12/2010 01:08:25 PM 872 Views
Filch and a password. - 16/12/2010 11:51:24 PM 1707 Views
Re: Filch and a password. - 20/12/2010 05:41:02 PM 1674 Views
Chapters 31-33: The Battle for Hogwarts, The Elder Wand, The Prince's Tale - 19/12/2010 07:56:39 PM 1725 Views
Characters: far too many to mention. - 19/12/2010 07:58:41 PM 1602 Views
Too many to mention, indeed. - 20/12/2010 09:30:54 AM 1944 Views
Re: Too many to mention, indeed. - 20/12/2010 07:02:05 PM 1793 Views
Re: Too many to mention, indeed. - 20/12/2010 11:24:46 PM 1713 Views
Re: Too many to mention, indeed. - 26/12/2010 09:46:25 PM 2092 Views
The action, and plot advancement and completion. - 19/12/2010 08:00:09 PM 1749 Views
memories, cinematic moments and parallels. - 20/12/2010 09:32:27 AM 1500 Views
Re: memories, cinematic moments and parallels. - 20/12/2010 07:17:18 PM 1821 Views
Re: memories, cinematic moments and parallels. - 20/12/2010 11:17:57 PM 1700 Views
Re: memories, cinematic moments and parallels. - 01/01/2011 10:39:27 PM 1689 Views
Re: memories, cinematic moments and parallels. - 02/01/2011 10:29:38 AM 1834 Views
Other matters. *NM* - 19/12/2010 08:00:39 PM 780 Views
More film stuff. - 20/12/2010 09:33:23 AM 1607 Views
Chapters 34-36: The Forest Again, King's Cross, The Flaw in the Plan - 20/12/2010 07:31:27 PM 1604 Views
Characters: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, et al. - 20/12/2010 07:32:15 PM 1634 Views
Harry, Dumbledore, Neville, the Malfoys, Molly and Voldemort - 20/12/2010 11:28:19 PM 1761 Views
The Malfoys and Molly - 01/01/2011 10:55:28 PM 1850 Views
Re: The Malfoys and Molly - 02/01/2011 10:35:47 AM 1851 Views
Tying up the plot. - 20/12/2010 07:33:00 PM 1612 Views
Narnia, blood, revenge of the downtrodden, sacrifice, plans and souls - 20/12/2010 11:29:44 PM 1753 Views
Anything else? - 20/12/2010 07:33:53 PM 1667 Views
Epilogue: the future. - 20/12/2010 07:35:06 PM 1740 Views
Re: Epilogue: the future. - 20/12/2010 11:31:28 PM 2016 Views
I'm the other way around - I mind it less this time. - 26/12/2010 09:52:21 PM 1762 Views

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