Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
Legolas Send a noteboard - 14/12/2010 10:04:09 PM
His tactics with regard to Griphook and the sword bother me a little. It is nonsense, of course: he cannot guarantee that Griphook will get it once they are done with it. He is heading of to quite possibly be killed, and I doubt Voldemort is going to hand it over to a goblin who claims Harry Potter said he could have it.
In fairness, he only promises he'll give him the sword. If others then confiscate it, he can't help that. But yes, it's sneaky, even if Rowling avoids any morally dubious acts on Harry's part in the end by having Griphook act as he does.
I also find it strange how easily he slips into using the Imperius Curse. The Greater Good idea keeps turning up, explicitly or implicitly, and I see this as one of those times.
Yes, that's rather interesting, isn't it? And with Bogrod he doesn't even have the excuse of his victim being a Death Eater. I take it Bellatrix' "you've got to mean it, boy!" only really referred to the Crucio and AK. Or else it was his sense of urgency that got the job done.
He also turns reckless. He heard Voldemort think that there would be alarms if he showed up in Hogsmeade, yet he does not think twice about apparating there.
In fairness, he has his reasons and they are good (though there would've been something to be said for sending one of the three away with the cup). I'm more concerned about how awfully convenient it is that he has the visions again, and that they tell him so much.
Fleur: Her annoyance at being sent with a message by Griphook is not her best trait. I keep getting confused about Fleur. She seems like a very contradictory character.
Griphook isn't a very sympathetic fellow at the best of times. Why should she like having to convey his messages and being treated as a servant in her own house? Bad enough that he has to stay there for so long without anyone even telling her why.
I don't really find her contradictory so much as too little fleshed out. Her turning into an imitation of Molly is kind of lame, and seems unrealistic and, if I dare say so, a bit sexist as well. She's supposed to be a highly capable and brave witch, after all.
Ron: He is back to being stupid in his interaction with Griphook, suggesting that he steal from the Lestranges &c. Both feet firmly planted in the salad. And trying to get Harry to lie. I sometimes think it is a little unfair on Ron to make him the character who must display all the prejudices of wizarding society. Yes, he is the wizardborn of the trio, and so the natural candidate, but you are never entirely a product of society as a whole, and there is something which jarrs here.
Not to me, really. Especially since, as Bill makes clear, the wizards' treatment of goblins does have its reasons.
Griphook: I like that he is not an annoying saint like Dobby. The point is that you should respect other sentient beings because that is what you should do, not because they are nice.
Indeed. The point has been made with the centaurs too, but there you could justify most, if perhaps not all, of their behaviour by pointing at the insults that usually precede it. Not so much here.
Lupin: I like to see him happy. And I like that he made Harry godfather. And I like that in between his insane mythical/Latin wolf-names he is called John. And I like that he checks who is present before he flows over with joy. I have always been a great fan of the paranoid side of Lupin.
Yeah, it's funny when Rowling does that. Hermione is Jane too, isn't she? And then little Teddy, such a prosaic name for a kid whose parents have names like that.
The Dragon: I feel so sorry for it. It is horribly how it has been tortured. Damned capitalists. It is also interesting that here another mistreated magical creature again helps Harry. However unaware.
True. I think mostly Rowling just wanted to go for the extremely spectacular and give her screenwriters an opportunity to go to town on the CGI, though.
Bellatrix and Lucius: As Voldemort starts killing people indiscriminately, how much do they understand? They cannot know the true value of the cup, although it sounds as if he has told them somthing with his talk of trusting too much.
Hard to say, really... if they're not complete nitwits, they should suspect that he has Horcruxes by now, and then I guess the connection is easily made. But then Bellatrix isn't exactly the brightest crayon in the box, and Lucius is no fool but somewhat of an amateur when it comes to the Dark Arts, one might be forgiven for thinking.
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book 7 - The Deathly Hallows
24/11/2010 07:47:44 PM
- 3828 Views
Suggestions - tell us what we could do better for this final discussion.
24/11/2010 07:48:22 PM
- 1665 Views
The series as a whole: overall thoughts about the Harry Potter universe and all it contains
24/11/2010 07:49:21 PM
- 1713 Views
Overall thoughts for The Deathly Hallows
24/11/2010 07:50:12 PM
- 1777 Views
This might be the only book other than the first where I actually like Harry.
30/11/2010 03:13:25 PM
- 1694 Views
Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
04/12/2010 03:45:24 PM
- 1825 Views
Re: Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
04/12/2010 10:33:03 PM
- 1832 Views
Going all the way back to the beginning in a number of ways, all of them so far excellent.
07/12/2010 10:19:33 PM
- 1868 Views
Having finished it again... it's good, at times great, but not the best book in the series, imho.
26/12/2010 08:19:47 PM
- 1930 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Dark Lord Ascending, In Memorian, The Dursleys Departing.
24/11/2010 07:51:29 PM
- 1773 Views
Characters: Voldemort, the Death Eaters, Harry, Dodge, Dumbledore, Skeeter & the Dursleys
24/11/2010 07:52:55 PM
- 1809 Views
Snape, Draco, Lucius, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Ms Burbage, Dumbledore, and the Dursleys.
24/11/2010 11:46:16 PM
- 1901 Views
Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
25/11/2010 04:44:36 PM
- 1973 Views
Re: Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
25/11/2010 04:53:25 PM
- 1849 Views
As Katie said, the husband is still around.
26/11/2010 10:56:30 AM
- 1873 Views
Re: Charity Burbage
25/11/2010 06:47:43 PM
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Re: Charity Burbage
25/11/2010 06:48:52 PM
- 1698 Views
Dudley
30/11/2010 03:16:25 PM
- 1699 Views
Agreed, but she just went overboard too far early on for it to be credible now.
06/12/2010 08:44:48 PM
- 1873 Views
Plotting, writing, early themes.
24/11/2010 07:53:33 PM
- 1771 Views
Anything else? *NM*
24/11/2010 07:53:46 PM
- 774 Views
other stuff
24/11/2010 11:47:54 PM
- 1639 Views
I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
25/11/2010 04:26:58 PM
- 1656 Views
Re: I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
27/11/2010 01:20:44 AM
- 1729 Views
Chapters 4-6: The Seven Potters, The Fallen Warrior, The Ghoul in Pyjamas *NM*
26/11/2010 07:27:53 PM
- 884 Views
Characters: Harry, the Order, Hedwig, Mr & Mrs Tonks, Voldemort, etc
26/11/2010 07:29:48 PM
- 1764 Views
Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
27/11/2010 11:56:17 AM
- 2065 Views
Re: Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
30/11/2010 02:52:12 PM
- 1905 Views
The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
26/11/2010 07:30:35 PM
- 1631 Views
Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
27/11/2010 11:59:36 AM
- 1998 Views
Yes, Dumbledore gives a very complex answer about the wand thing
01/12/2010 08:44:57 PM
- 1628 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM*
26/11/2010 07:30:49 PM
- 878 Views
Chapters 7-9: The Will of Albus Dumbledore, The Wedding, A Place to Hide
29/11/2010 06:39:52 PM
- 1601 Views
The characters: usual suspects, Scrimgeour, Doge, Krum, Luna, Xenophilius, etc.
29/11/2010 06:41:41 PM
- 1714 Views
I just realized something about Krum.
06/12/2010 09:00:28 PM
- 1680 Views
The action.
29/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
- 1602 Views
Hermione and obliviate.
30/11/2010 02:23:51 PM
- 1685 Views
Re: Hermione and obliviate.
30/11/2010 03:24:06 PM
- 1724 Views
I think this was a Rowling mistake. It happens
01/12/2010 08:32:25 PM
- 1751 Views
Agreed, though a rather blatant one that someone should have caught... *NM*
06/12/2010 08:18:58 PM
- 867 Views
Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point...
06/12/2010 08:33:02 PM
- 1869 Views
Er, I posted this in the wrong place. That's what I get when I try to catch up. Sorry. *NM*
06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
- 902 Views
Please, sir, may I have some more? *NM*
29/11/2010 06:44:14 PM
- 831 Views
I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers.
30/11/2010 02:59:04 PM
- 1743 Views
Chapters 10-12: Kreacher's Tale, The Bribe, Magic is Might
01/12/2010 11:41:40 PM
- 1581 Views
Characters: more of the trio, Kreacher, Mundungus, RAB and Umbridge
01/12/2010 11:42:34 PM
- 1619 Views
Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
02/12/2010 09:11:21 AM
- 1914 Views
Re: Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
04/12/2010 10:55:34 PM
- 1906 Views
Seconded. Righteous anger is more fun than whiny angst-anger. *NM*
06/12/2010 09:41:16 PM
- 840 Views
I'm not sure why we're supposed to be surprised about Scrimgeour.
06/12/2010 09:46:27 PM
- 1920 Views
Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk.
06/12/2010 09:54:53 PM
- 1703 Views
Weaving the plot, the writing, and thematic matters.
01/12/2010 11:43:25 PM
- 1745 Views
The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 09:14:21 AM
- 1789 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 02:12:29 PM
- 1807 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 02:35:06 PM
- 1527 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 04:16:14 PM
- 1853 Views
And? And? And? *NM*
01/12/2010 11:43:46 PM
- 879 Views
Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
04/12/2010 10:21:42 PM
- 1834 Views
Re: Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
04/12/2010 10:32:17 PM
- 1732 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Muggle-Born Registration Commission, The Thief, The Goblin's Revenge *NM*
04/12/2010 11:01:25 AM
- 1029 Views
Characters: Ministry members, the trio, Ted, Dean, Dirk, Goblins, Phineas Nigellus
04/12/2010 11:07:57 AM
- 1714 Views
Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
04/12/2010 09:59:45 PM
- 1916 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
06/12/2010 10:41:08 PM
- 1891 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
06/12/2010 10:45:17 PM
- 1792 Views
Plotting, writing, theming.
04/12/2010 11:08:47 AM
- 1876 Views
Apparating and the fidelius charm, some good plotting and the food problem.
04/12/2010 10:01:16 PM
- 1892 Views
Anything else? *NM*
04/12/2010 11:10:52 AM
- 911 Views
It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
06/12/2010 10:09:04 PM
- 1730 Views
Re: It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
06/12/2010 10:17:42 PM
- 1672 Views
Chapters 16-18: Godric's Hollow, Bathilda's Secret, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore
06/12/2010 09:57:00 PM
- 1731 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Bathilda, Dumbledore and others
06/12/2010 09:57:52 PM
- 1816 Views
Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:02:13 PM
- 1851 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:14:26 PM
- 1919 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:18:15 PM
- 2013 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:34:15 PM
- 1708 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:36:18 PM
- 1730 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:39:58 PM
- 2002 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:42:27 PM
- 1589 Views
I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
07/12/2010 08:47:11 PM
- 1612 Views
Re: I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
07/12/2010 08:55:54 PM
- 1660 Views
Lights! Camera! Action!
06/12/2010 09:59:52 PM
- 1712 Views
But wait! There's more!
06/12/2010 10:00:34 PM
- 1672 Views
Chapters 19-21: The Silver Doe, Xenophilius Lovegood, The Tale of the Three Brothers
08/12/2010 08:47:04 PM
- 1753 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Lovegood ... and not many more. *NM*
08/12/2010 08:49:28 PM
- 932 Views
Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 12:01:57 AM
- 1837 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 03:04:11 PM
- 1879 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 08:03:05 PM
- 1738 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 11:48:08 PM
- 1951 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 08:44:01 PM
- 1790 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 09:00:44 PM
- 1719 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 09:16:48 PM
- 1701 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 09:19:38 PM
- 1721 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
19/12/2010 06:58:04 PM
- 1662 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
20/12/2010 09:36:17 AM
- 1690 Views
What was that again about Hermione not being so good at thinking on her feet?
09/12/2010 07:52:23 PM
- 1744 Views
Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
08/12/2010 08:50:53 PM
- 1823 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
09/12/2010 12:04:37 AM
- 1722 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM
- 1705 Views
I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up".
09/12/2010 06:52:29 PM
- 1677 Views
up up down down left right left right b a select start. look at me I have 99 horcruxes!
10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
- 1416 Views
They're not so annoying yet, now.
09/12/2010 06:56:46 PM
- 1610 Views
Re: They're not so annoying yet, now.
09/12/2010 11:52:02 PM
- 1810 Views
Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
- 1745 Views
Re: Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
- 1843 Views
Chapters 22-24: The Deathly Hallows, Malfoy Manor, The Wandmaker.
10/12/2010 09:11:32 PM
- 1612 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Malfoys, Dobby, a number of others. *NM*
10/12/2010 09:12:30 PM
- 907 Views
Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
10/12/2010 11:23:09 PM
- 1919 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
13/12/2010 08:47:27 PM
- 1737 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
13/12/2010 09:26:58 PM
- 1943 Views
On a side note about wands
14/12/2010 06:05:13 PM
- 1772 Views
Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
- 1794 Views
Re: Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
- 1850 Views
Plot, writing, themes. *NM*
10/12/2010 09:13:37 PM
- 901 Views
An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
10/12/2010 11:24:05 PM
- 1658 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
20/12/2010 01:00:38 PM
- 1820 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
20/12/2010 07:32:48 PM
- 1834 Views
Chapters 25-27: Shell Cottage, Gringotts, The Final Hiding Place
13/12/2010 10:03:15 PM
- 1653 Views
Characters *NM*
13/12/2010 10:03:29 PM
- 859 Views
Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 05:16:51 PM
- 1799 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:04:09 PM
- 1765 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:19:04 PM
- 1842 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:37:00 PM
- 1710 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:45:36 PM
- 1840 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
20/12/2010 03:33:49 PM
- 1857 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
20/12/2010 07:35:51 PM
- 2037 Views
Plot, action, etc. *NM*
13/12/2010 10:04:02 PM
- 855 Views
red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle.
14/12/2010 05:17:11 PM
- 1573 Views
Other things. *NM*
13/12/2010 10:04:23 PM
- 768 Views
Film stuff
14/12/2010 05:17:18 PM
- 1666 Views
Excellent point.
14/12/2010 10:05:01 PM
- 1653 Views
Re: Excellent point.
14/12/2010 10:09:53 PM
- 1667 Views
Sometimes Rowling's parallels are far too simplistic and unsophisticated.
20/12/2010 03:39:50 PM
- 1672 Views
Chapters 28-30: The Missing Mirror, The Lost Diadem, The Sacking of Severus Snape *NM*
16/12/2010 01:07:20 PM
- 897 Views
Characters *NM*
16/12/2010 01:07:31 PM
- 830 Views
Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
16/12/2010 11:52:46 PM
- 1934 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
20/12/2010 05:16:13 PM
- 1784 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
20/12/2010 11:02:45 PM
- 1763 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
26/12/2010 08:43:03 PM
- 1770 Views
Writing, action, plot, theme, yadda yadda yadda. *NM*
16/12/2010 01:08:04 PM
- 852 Views
red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
16/12/2010 11:53:56 PM
- 1762 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
20/12/2010 05:38:46 PM
- 1735 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
20/12/2010 11:06:01 PM
- 1920 Views
Other things. *NM*
16/12/2010 01:08:25 PM
- 874 Views
Chapters 31-33: The Battle for Hogwarts, The Elder Wand, The Prince's Tale
19/12/2010 07:56:39 PM
- 1733 Views
Characters: far too many to mention.
19/12/2010 07:58:41 PM
- 1610 Views
Too many to mention, indeed.
20/12/2010 09:30:54 AM
- 1950 Views
The action, and plot advancement and completion.
19/12/2010 08:00:09 PM
- 1753 Views
memories, cinematic moments and parallels.
20/12/2010 09:32:27 AM
- 1508 Views
Chapters 34-36: The Forest Again, King's Cross, The Flaw in the Plan
20/12/2010 07:31:27 PM
- 1609 Views
Characters: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, et al.
20/12/2010 07:32:15 PM
- 1639 Views
Harry, Dumbledore, Neville, the Malfoys, Molly and Voldemort
20/12/2010 11:28:19 PM
- 1764 Views
Tying up the plot.
20/12/2010 07:33:00 PM
- 1620 Views
Narnia, blood, revenge of the downtrodden, sacrifice, plans and souls
20/12/2010 11:29:44 PM
- 1758 Views
Epilogue: the future.
20/12/2010 07:35:06 PM
- 1751 Views