Re: The fidelius charm & the taboo. Oh, and magic food.
Camilla Send a noteboard - 02/12/2010 06:46:37 PM
Something is still screwy with the Fidelius Charm. Earlier they mention they had to abandon Grimmaud Place as the Order's Headquarters because the Charm was so weakened. Anyone who had been told of the whereabouts became a Secret-Keeper, and it could be tortured out of any of them. But Snape already knew! Why couldn't he tell other people where it was? They only ever worry about Snape breaking in, not Snape telling others how to break in.
I think that was what the tongue-tying in Grimmaud Place was for. But yes, it is definitely a weak point. And I think it is caused by Rowling knowing Snape is a good guy. She is usually very good at covering those tracks, but I think it slipped here.
Furthermore, back in the fifth book we saw Dumbledore in Grimmaud Place. If the Secret-Keeper can enter the protected dwelling, why weren't James and Lily Potter their own Secret-Keeper? They could have kept their location a secret, and then waited for everything to blow over.
Well, the big question is whether the charm hid them or their house only. From book 2 I assumed they themselves were hidden. If they had been their own secret keepers, then that would have made it impossible for them to communicate with the outside world, and so they could not have told anyone the secret. I think that is one of the main indications in favour of the Potters themselves being hidden. There are of course explanations for why they might have used someone else for the job even if what was hidden was their house, I suppose. I think it was discussed in the re-read of the first book.
Another thing: Harry and the gang are so careful to Apparate to the top step at Grimmaud Place, under the Invisibility Cloak. But it's hard to keep balance and pull-off well. Why not just Apparate to the bottom of the steps, the road, or ever a block away, and walk in under the Cloak. Less chance of letting the Cloak slip. And I thought in the fifth book we saw Order members Apparate from inside the house. Didn't Fred and George Apparate every few feet, Apparate into Harry and Ron's room? All of the sudden Harry, Ron and Hermione can't just Apparate into the house?
Yes, this is weird. I have been wondering about the same thing. Could it be tied to the worry that the trace could still be on Harry? Although I suppose not, as I think they keep doing it after Lupin has punctured that theory. I think they cannot all walk under the cloak at once, as they are now all grown and tall.
And we see Kreacher Apparate out of the house. Even if it's just a difference between house elf magic and wizard magic (we've seen house elves Apparate at Hogwarts, which seems like a great way to smuggle people in), they could hitch rides with him.
Further indications of the taboo are there in that they mention Voldemort and Death Eaters show up in the square outside Grimmaud Place.
I wonder if the Ministry had Taboos set up on the Unforgivable Curses. It'd help them track anyone saying the words "Avada Kedavra" or "Crucio" or "Imperio".
Hmm. People do show up at the ministry just as Harry is shouting Crucio. But I don't think so, because nobody ever objects to Barty Jr's use of them at Hogwarts. Still, it seems like it would have been a good idea.
Hermione's unsuccessful attempts to transfigure mouldy bread lays the ground for Neville's later revelation that food is one of the few things you cannot create magically.
Neville might mention it later, but Hermione is where we first hear about it, during the camping trip. She says you can alter food, even duplicate it, but you can't create it out of thin air.
Ah, yes. I knew it came later, but I wasn't sure where. She must have looked it up after her problems with the mouldy bread.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book 7 - The Deathly Hallows
24/11/2010 07:47:44 PM
- 3828 Views
Suggestions - tell us what we could do better for this final discussion.
24/11/2010 07:48:22 PM
- 1665 Views
The series as a whole: overall thoughts about the Harry Potter universe and all it contains
24/11/2010 07:49:21 PM
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Overall thoughts for The Deathly Hallows
24/11/2010 07:50:12 PM
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This might be the only book other than the first where I actually like Harry.
30/11/2010 03:13:25 PM
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Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
04/12/2010 03:45:24 PM
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Re: Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
04/12/2010 10:33:03 PM
- 1832 Views
Going all the way back to the beginning in a number of ways, all of them so far excellent.
07/12/2010 10:19:33 PM
- 1868 Views
Having finished it again... it's good, at times great, but not the best book in the series, imho.
26/12/2010 08:19:47 PM
- 1930 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Dark Lord Ascending, In Memorian, The Dursleys Departing.
24/11/2010 07:51:29 PM
- 1773 Views
Characters: Voldemort, the Death Eaters, Harry, Dodge, Dumbledore, Skeeter & the Dursleys
24/11/2010 07:52:55 PM
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Snape, Draco, Lucius, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Ms Burbage, Dumbledore, and the Dursleys.
24/11/2010 11:46:16 PM
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Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
25/11/2010 04:44:36 PM
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Re: Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
25/11/2010 04:53:25 PM
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As Katie said, the husband is still around.
26/11/2010 10:56:30 AM
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Re: Charity Burbage
25/11/2010 06:47:43 PM
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Re: Charity Burbage
25/11/2010 06:48:52 PM
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Dudley
30/11/2010 03:16:25 PM
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Agreed, but she just went overboard too far early on for it to be credible now.
06/12/2010 08:44:48 PM
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Plotting, writing, early themes.
24/11/2010 07:53:33 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
24/11/2010 07:53:46 PM
- 774 Views
other stuff
24/11/2010 11:47:54 PM
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I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
25/11/2010 04:26:58 PM
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Re: I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
27/11/2010 01:20:44 AM
- 1729 Views
Chapters 4-6: The Seven Potters, The Fallen Warrior, The Ghoul in Pyjamas *NM*
26/11/2010 07:27:53 PM
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Characters: Harry, the Order, Hedwig, Mr & Mrs Tonks, Voldemort, etc
26/11/2010 07:29:48 PM
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Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
27/11/2010 11:56:17 AM
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Re: Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
30/11/2010 02:52:12 PM
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The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
26/11/2010 07:30:35 PM
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Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
27/11/2010 11:59:36 AM
- 1998 Views
Yes, Dumbledore gives a very complex answer about the wand thing
01/12/2010 08:44:57 PM
- 1628 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM*
26/11/2010 07:30:49 PM
- 878 Views
Chapters 7-9: The Will of Albus Dumbledore, The Wedding, A Place to Hide
29/11/2010 06:39:52 PM
- 1601 Views
The characters: usual suspects, Scrimgeour, Doge, Krum, Luna, Xenophilius, etc.
29/11/2010 06:41:41 PM
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I just realized something about Krum.
06/12/2010 09:00:28 PM
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The action.
29/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
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Hermione and obliviate.
30/11/2010 02:23:51 PM
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Re: Hermione and obliviate.
30/11/2010 03:24:06 PM
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I think this was a Rowling mistake. It happens
01/12/2010 08:32:25 PM
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Agreed, though a rather blatant one that someone should have caught... *NM*
06/12/2010 08:18:58 PM
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Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point...
06/12/2010 08:33:02 PM
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Er, I posted this in the wrong place. That's what I get when I try to catch up. Sorry. *NM*
06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
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Please, sir, may I have some more? *NM*
29/11/2010 06:44:14 PM
- 831 Views
I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers.
30/11/2010 02:59:04 PM
- 1743 Views
Chapters 10-12: Kreacher's Tale, The Bribe, Magic is Might
01/12/2010 11:41:40 PM
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Characters: more of the trio, Kreacher, Mundungus, RAB and Umbridge
01/12/2010 11:42:34 PM
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Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
02/12/2010 09:11:21 AM
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Re: Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
04/12/2010 10:55:34 PM
- 1906 Views
Seconded. Righteous anger is more fun than whiny angst-anger. *NM*
06/12/2010 09:41:16 PM
- 840 Views
I'm not sure why we're supposed to be surprised about Scrimgeour.
06/12/2010 09:46:27 PM
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Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk.
06/12/2010 09:54:53 PM
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Weaving the plot, the writing, and thematic matters.
01/12/2010 11:43:25 PM
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The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 09:14:21 AM
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Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 02:12:29 PM
- 1809 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 02:35:06 PM
- 1527 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 04:16:14 PM
- 1853 Views
Re: The fidelius charm & the taboo. Oh, and magic food.
02/12/2010 05:59:28 PM
- 1980 Views
Re: The fidelius charm & the taboo. Oh, and magic food.
02/12/2010 06:46:37 PM
- 2005 Views
And? And? And? *NM*
01/12/2010 11:43:46 PM
- 879 Views
Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
04/12/2010 10:21:42 PM
- 1834 Views
Re: Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
04/12/2010 10:32:17 PM
- 1732 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Muggle-Born Registration Commission, The Thief, The Goblin's Revenge *NM*
04/12/2010 11:01:25 AM
- 1029 Views
Characters: Ministry members, the trio, Ted, Dean, Dirk, Goblins, Phineas Nigellus
04/12/2010 11:07:57 AM
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Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
04/12/2010 09:59:45 PM
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Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
06/12/2010 10:41:08 PM
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Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
06/12/2010 10:45:17 PM
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Plotting, writing, theming.
04/12/2010 11:08:47 AM
- 1876 Views
Apparating and the fidelius charm, some good plotting and the food problem.
04/12/2010 10:01:16 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
04/12/2010 11:10:52 AM
- 911 Views
It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
06/12/2010 10:09:04 PM
- 1730 Views
Re: It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
06/12/2010 10:17:42 PM
- 1672 Views
Chapters 16-18: Godric's Hollow, Bathilda's Secret, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore
06/12/2010 09:57:00 PM
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Characters: Harry, Hermione, Bathilda, Dumbledore and others
06/12/2010 09:57:52 PM
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Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:02:13 PM
- 1851 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:14:26 PM
- 1919 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:18:15 PM
- 2013 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:34:15 PM
- 1709 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:36:18 PM
- 1730 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:39:58 PM
- 2002 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:42:27 PM
- 1589 Views
I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
07/12/2010 08:47:11 PM
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Re: I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
07/12/2010 08:55:54 PM
- 1660 Views
Lights! Camera! Action!
06/12/2010 09:59:52 PM
- 1712 Views
But wait! There's more!
06/12/2010 10:00:34 PM
- 1672 Views
Chapters 19-21: The Silver Doe, Xenophilius Lovegood, The Tale of the Three Brothers
08/12/2010 08:47:04 PM
- 1753 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Lovegood ... and not many more. *NM*
08/12/2010 08:49:28 PM
- 932 Views
Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 12:01:57 AM
- 1837 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 03:04:11 PM
- 1879 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 08:03:05 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 11:48:08 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 08:44:01 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 09:00:44 PM
- 1719 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 09:16:48 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 09:19:38 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
19/12/2010 06:58:04 PM
- 1662 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
20/12/2010 09:36:17 AM
- 1690 Views
What was that again about Hermione not being so good at thinking on her feet?
09/12/2010 07:52:23 PM
- 1745 Views
Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
08/12/2010 08:50:53 PM
- 1823 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
09/12/2010 12:04:37 AM
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Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM
- 1705 Views
I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up".
09/12/2010 06:52:29 PM
- 1677 Views
up up down down left right left right b a select start. look at me I have 99 horcruxes!
10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
- 1417 Views
They're not so annoying yet, now.
09/12/2010 06:56:46 PM
- 1610 Views
Re: They're not so annoying yet, now.
09/12/2010 11:52:02 PM
- 1811 Views
Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
- 1745 Views
Re: Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
- 1843 Views
Chapters 22-24: The Deathly Hallows, Malfoy Manor, The Wandmaker.
10/12/2010 09:11:32 PM
- 1612 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Malfoys, Dobby, a number of others. *NM*
10/12/2010 09:12:30 PM
- 907 Views
Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
10/12/2010 11:23:09 PM
- 1919 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
13/12/2010 08:47:27 PM
- 1737 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
13/12/2010 09:26:58 PM
- 1943 Views
On a side note about wands
14/12/2010 06:05:13 PM
- 1772 Views
Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
- 1794 Views
Re: Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
- 1850 Views
Plot, writing, themes. *NM*
10/12/2010 09:13:37 PM
- 901 Views
An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
10/12/2010 11:24:05 PM
- 1658 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
20/12/2010 01:00:38 PM
- 1821 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
20/12/2010 07:32:48 PM
- 1835 Views
Chapters 25-27: Shell Cottage, Gringotts, The Final Hiding Place
13/12/2010 10:03:15 PM
- 1653 Views
Characters *NM*
13/12/2010 10:03:29 PM
- 859 Views
Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 05:16:51 PM
- 1799 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:04:09 PM
- 1765 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:19:04 PM
- 1842 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:37:00 PM
- 1710 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:45:36 PM
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Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
20/12/2010 03:33:49 PM
- 1857 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
20/12/2010 07:35:51 PM
- 2037 Views
Plot, action, etc. *NM*
13/12/2010 10:04:02 PM
- 855 Views
red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle.
14/12/2010 05:17:11 PM
- 1573 Views
Other things. *NM*
13/12/2010 10:04:23 PM
- 768 Views
Film stuff
14/12/2010 05:17:18 PM
- 1666 Views
Excellent point.
14/12/2010 10:05:01 PM
- 1653 Views
Re: Excellent point.
14/12/2010 10:09:53 PM
- 1667 Views
Sometimes Rowling's parallels are far too simplistic and unsophisticated.
20/12/2010 03:39:50 PM
- 1672 Views
Chapters 28-30: The Missing Mirror, The Lost Diadem, The Sacking of Severus Snape *NM*
16/12/2010 01:07:20 PM
- 897 Views
Characters *NM*
16/12/2010 01:07:31 PM
- 830 Views
Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
16/12/2010 11:52:46 PM
- 1934 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
20/12/2010 05:16:13 PM
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Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
20/12/2010 11:02:45 PM
- 1763 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
26/12/2010 08:43:03 PM
- 1770 Views
Writing, action, plot, theme, yadda yadda yadda. *NM*
16/12/2010 01:08:04 PM
- 852 Views
red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
16/12/2010 11:53:56 PM
- 1762 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
20/12/2010 05:38:46 PM
- 1735 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
20/12/2010 11:06:01 PM
- 1920 Views
Other things. *NM*
16/12/2010 01:08:25 PM
- 874 Views
Chapters 31-33: The Battle for Hogwarts, The Elder Wand, The Prince's Tale
19/12/2010 07:56:39 PM
- 1733 Views
Characters: far too many to mention.
19/12/2010 07:58:41 PM
- 1611 Views
Too many to mention, indeed.
20/12/2010 09:30:54 AM
- 1950 Views
The action, and plot advancement and completion.
19/12/2010 08:00:09 PM
- 1753 Views
memories, cinematic moments and parallels.
20/12/2010 09:32:27 AM
- 1508 Views
Chapters 34-36: The Forest Again, King's Cross, The Flaw in the Plan
20/12/2010 07:31:27 PM
- 1609 Views
Characters: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, et al.
20/12/2010 07:32:15 PM
- 1639 Views
Harry, Dumbledore, Neville, the Malfoys, Molly and Voldemort
20/12/2010 11:28:19 PM
- 1764 Views
Tying up the plot.
20/12/2010 07:33:00 PM
- 1620 Views
Narnia, blood, revenge of the downtrodden, sacrifice, plans and souls
20/12/2010 11:29:44 PM
- 1758 Views
Epilogue: the future.
20/12/2010 07:35:06 PM
- 1751 Views