Draco: his horror at the teacher hanging above the table is another clear indication that he can be redeemed. He is not evil. He is not the psychopath Harry thinks him and tries to convince the reader he is.
Agreed, but Harry doesn't think that anymore. Not after the events on the Astronomy Tower. Or even before that, the weeping in Moaning Myrtle's bathroom.
True.
Narcissa: She is clearly the one Lucius relies on. Which is interesting considering all we have seen of Death Eaters and their women.
It is interesting, there are at least three women at that table, one of them not named (but apparently not Alecto Carrow, or Rowling would have said), so there seem to be a number of female Death Eaters after all. The sexism we've noticed before seems less obvious here. Though it does seem to me that Tonks' marriage would've been discussed differently if she had been a man. There seems to be a notion of "how dare that vile beast defile a witch descended from a pureblood family" that reminds one of honour killings and the like - even though of course Tonks is a half-blood to begin with, as Bellatrix points out.
I agree. I wonder whether the other female death eaters are under Voldemort's spell in the same way as Bellatrix. Could there be some way in which it is acceptable for them to act as something outside their position as women based on some sort of obsession cult around Voldemort? I am speculating wildly now, in an attempt to make sense of the apparent contradiction. Or is there a married woman/unmarried aspect? Bellatrix was married, but what happened to her husband? Did he get killed?
And yes, Narcissa is clearly leading her family here, doing what it takes to keep them all safe.
l
Bellatrix: It is odd to find a point of agreement with a violent madwoman, but we do share a similar view on the Tonks/Lupin marriage. It is an abomination. Though not for the reasons she thinks. Other than that, however, I cannot help but feel that Bellatrix has lost something here. It may be because we see her with Voldemort, but this fawning character does not appeal to me as much as the scary Death Eater. Tears and emotion are not traits I imagine as coming naturally to her. But yes, I suppose it is all down to Voldemort. She is not just a psychopath, she is a Believer.
You don't give up, do you?
Never.
She's certainly not as scary when she's groveling to Voldemort, but her feelings for him do make her more interesting than if she'd just been a random psychopath, imho.
True.
The moment of Mr Dursley and Harry wondering whether Harry would save them if Voldemort took them as hostages. It passes quickly, but it is an interesting question. I cannot help think he would. He is a hero type after all. It would be his fault, so he would save them. It is clear if nothing else in his emphatic attempt to convince his uncle that he really is in danger when he could have just said "fine, your choice" and left.
I agree.
Charity Burbage: We see her killed, then we learn from the Prophet that she resigned at the beginning of the summer. Do we ever find out why?
It is a bit unclear... perhaps we'll get more clues later on.
Dumbledore: The first indication of Dumbledore's past, apart from the tantalising hints in earlier books. I like how Rowling forces us to deal with wildly contradictory stories. Doge is clearly trying to smooth over too much, but she does provide some indication that he is not all wrong in having Rita Skeeter be the woman behind the opposite story, especially coupled with her hints of an "unhealthy" relationship between Dumbledore and Harry and the suggestion that Harry may have killed Dumbledore and framed Snape. But the immediate reaction of revulsion is tempered as Harry goes through it and then stops to question what he really knows about Dumbledore. It is well written. I also like how Rowling takes the old, wise man archetype and points out the obvious, which no one ever does: that they must have been young once. The creation of a back story for Dumbledore is one of the best traits of the book, I think.
Agreed. The contrast between the two hinting at the truth in the middle is indeed well done. And the mention of the Grand Tour can only confirm the impression of the wizarding world being stuck in the past a bit. Though I suppose in the 1890s actual Britons did in fact still do Grand Tours - A Room with a View must be set somewhere around then, no? Or perhaps even later?
It is written later, but I still think there was an element of the Grand Tour up until the first world war. Although less fixed in form.
Dudley: His change of personality is quite wonderful. I still wonder what that memory that the Dementors caused can have been. It must have been truly terrible to cause this change.
And I'm still not convinced that we should be searching for any particular memory - just the general experience was traumatic enough, I dare say.
You mean that the lack of a fluffy set of happy memories which has been Dudley's cushion all his life was such a shock it make him catatonic on its own, without any particularly bad memory to cause it?
Petunia: She is her usual caricature self until the last moment, where I think there is half a moment of being her sister's sister and leaving her nephew. Petunia knows, after all.
Seems to be, yeah, though what she would've said I'm not sure.
I doubt she knows either.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book 7 - The Deathly Hallows
24/11/2010 07:47:44 PM
- 3831 Views
Suggestions - tell us what we could do better for this final discussion.
24/11/2010 07:48:22 PM
- 1668 Views
The series as a whole: overall thoughts about the Harry Potter universe and all it contains
24/11/2010 07:49:21 PM
- 1715 Views
Overall thoughts for The Deathly Hallows
24/11/2010 07:50:12 PM
- 1779 Views
This might be the only book other than the first where I actually like Harry.
30/11/2010 03:13:25 PM
- 1697 Views
Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
04/12/2010 03:45:24 PM
- 1829 Views
Re: Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
04/12/2010 10:33:03 PM
- 1833 Views
Going all the way back to the beginning in a number of ways, all of them so far excellent.
07/12/2010 10:19:33 PM
- 1873 Views
Having finished it again... it's good, at times great, but not the best book in the series, imho.
26/12/2010 08:19:47 PM
- 1932 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Dark Lord Ascending, In Memorian, The Dursleys Departing.
24/11/2010 07:51:29 PM
- 1774 Views
Characters: Voldemort, the Death Eaters, Harry, Dodge, Dumbledore, Skeeter & the Dursleys
24/11/2010 07:52:55 PM
- 1814 Views
Snape, Draco, Lucius, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Ms Burbage, Dumbledore, and the Dursleys.
24/11/2010 11:46:16 PM
- 1905 Views
Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
25/11/2010 04:44:36 PM
- 1974 Views
Re: Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
25/11/2010 04:53:25 PM
- 1852 Views
As Katie said, the husband is still around.
26/11/2010 10:56:30 AM
- 1875 Views
Re: Charity Burbage
25/11/2010 06:47:43 PM
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Re: Charity Burbage
25/11/2010 06:48:52 PM
- 1701 Views
Dudley
30/11/2010 03:16:25 PM
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Agreed, but she just went overboard too far early on for it to be credible now.
06/12/2010 08:44:48 PM
- 1875 Views
Plotting, writing, early themes.
24/11/2010 07:53:33 PM
- 1772 Views
Anything else? *NM*
24/11/2010 07:53:46 PM
- 775 Views
other stuff
24/11/2010 11:47:54 PM
- 1642 Views
I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
25/11/2010 04:26:58 PM
- 1657 Views
Re: I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
27/11/2010 01:20:44 AM
- 1732 Views
Chapters 4-6: The Seven Potters, The Fallen Warrior, The Ghoul in Pyjamas *NM*
26/11/2010 07:27:53 PM
- 885 Views
Characters: Harry, the Order, Hedwig, Mr & Mrs Tonks, Voldemort, etc
26/11/2010 07:29:48 PM
- 1766 Views
Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
27/11/2010 11:56:17 AM
- 2068 Views
Re: Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
30/11/2010 02:52:12 PM
- 1908 Views
The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
26/11/2010 07:30:35 PM
- 1634 Views
Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
27/11/2010 11:59:36 AM
- 2001 Views
Yes, Dumbledore gives a very complex answer about the wand thing
01/12/2010 08:44:57 PM
- 1632 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM*
26/11/2010 07:30:49 PM
- 879 Views
Chapters 7-9: The Will of Albus Dumbledore, The Wedding, A Place to Hide
29/11/2010 06:39:52 PM
- 1602 Views
The characters: usual suspects, Scrimgeour, Doge, Krum, Luna, Xenophilius, etc.
29/11/2010 06:41:41 PM
- 1717 Views
I just realized something about Krum.
06/12/2010 09:00:28 PM
- 1683 Views
The action.
29/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
- 1604 Views
Hermione and obliviate.
30/11/2010 02:23:51 PM
- 1687 Views
Re: Hermione and obliviate.
30/11/2010 03:24:06 PM
- 1728 Views
I think this was a Rowling mistake. It happens
01/12/2010 08:32:25 PM
- 1753 Views
Agreed, though a rather blatant one that someone should have caught... *NM*
06/12/2010 08:18:58 PM
- 868 Views
Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point...
06/12/2010 08:33:02 PM
- 1872 Views
Er, I posted this in the wrong place. That's what I get when I try to catch up. Sorry. *NM*
06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
- 903 Views
Please, sir, may I have some more? *NM*
29/11/2010 06:44:14 PM
- 832 Views
I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers.
30/11/2010 02:59:04 PM
- 1746 Views
Chapters 10-12: Kreacher's Tale, The Bribe, Magic is Might
01/12/2010 11:41:40 PM
- 1583 Views
Characters: more of the trio, Kreacher, Mundungus, RAB and Umbridge
01/12/2010 11:42:34 PM
- 1621 Views
Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
02/12/2010 09:11:21 AM
- 1915 Views
Re: Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
04/12/2010 10:55:34 PM
- 1910 Views
Seconded. Righteous anger is more fun than whiny angst-anger. *NM*
06/12/2010 09:41:16 PM
- 842 Views
I'm not sure why we're supposed to be surprised about Scrimgeour.
06/12/2010 09:46:27 PM
- 1921 Views
Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk.
06/12/2010 09:54:53 PM
- 1706 Views
Weaving the plot, the writing, and thematic matters.
01/12/2010 11:43:25 PM
- 1747 Views
The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 09:14:21 AM
- 1792 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 02:12:29 PM
- 1811 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 02:35:06 PM
- 1530 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 04:16:14 PM
- 1854 Views
And? And? And? *NM*
01/12/2010 11:43:46 PM
- 881 Views
Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
04/12/2010 10:21:42 PM
- 1837 Views
Re: Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
04/12/2010 10:32:17 PM
- 1734 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Muggle-Born Registration Commission, The Thief, The Goblin's Revenge *NM*
04/12/2010 11:01:25 AM
- 1030 Views
Characters: Ministry members, the trio, Ted, Dean, Dirk, Goblins, Phineas Nigellus
04/12/2010 11:07:57 AM
- 1719 Views
Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
04/12/2010 09:59:45 PM
- 1919 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
06/12/2010 10:41:08 PM
- 1896 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
06/12/2010 10:45:17 PM
- 1794 Views
Plotting, writing, theming.
04/12/2010 11:08:47 AM
- 1879 Views
Apparating and the fidelius charm, some good plotting and the food problem.
04/12/2010 10:01:16 PM
- 1896 Views
Anything else? *NM*
04/12/2010 11:10:52 AM
- 913 Views
It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
06/12/2010 10:09:04 PM
- 1734 Views
Re: It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
06/12/2010 10:17:42 PM
- 1674 Views
Chapters 16-18: Godric's Hollow, Bathilda's Secret, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore
06/12/2010 09:57:00 PM
- 1735 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Bathilda, Dumbledore and others
06/12/2010 09:57:52 PM
- 1818 Views
Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:02:13 PM
- 1854 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:14:26 PM
- 1925 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:18:15 PM
- 2017 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:34:15 PM
- 1711 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:36:18 PM
- 1732 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:39:58 PM
- 2006 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:42:27 PM
- 1591 Views
I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
07/12/2010 08:47:11 PM
- 1615 Views
Re: I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
07/12/2010 08:55:54 PM
- 1661 Views
Lights! Camera! Action!
06/12/2010 09:59:52 PM
- 1713 Views
But wait! There's more!
06/12/2010 10:00:34 PM
- 1674 Views
Chapters 19-21: The Silver Doe, Xenophilius Lovegood, The Tale of the Three Brothers
08/12/2010 08:47:04 PM
- 1754 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Lovegood ... and not many more. *NM*
08/12/2010 08:49:28 PM
- 933 Views
Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 12:01:57 AM
- 1839 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 03:04:11 PM
- 1882 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 08:03:05 PM
- 1739 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 11:48:08 PM
- 1952 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 08:44:01 PM
- 1793 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 09:00:44 PM
- 1722 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 09:16:48 PM
- 1702 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 09:19:38 PM
- 1723 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
19/12/2010 06:58:04 PM
- 1665 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
20/12/2010 09:36:17 AM
- 1693 Views
What was that again about Hermione not being so good at thinking on her feet?
09/12/2010 07:52:23 PM
- 1747 Views
Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
08/12/2010 08:50:53 PM
- 1824 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
09/12/2010 12:04:37 AM
- 1723 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM
- 1709 Views
I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up".
09/12/2010 06:52:29 PM
- 1679 Views
up up down down left right left right b a select start. look at me I have 99 horcruxes!
10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
- 1418 Views
They're not so annoying yet, now.
09/12/2010 06:56:46 PM
- 1613 Views
Re: They're not so annoying yet, now.
09/12/2010 11:52:02 PM
- 1813 Views
Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
- 1749 Views
Re: Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
- 1844 Views
Chapters 22-24: The Deathly Hallows, Malfoy Manor, The Wandmaker.
10/12/2010 09:11:32 PM
- 1614 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Malfoys, Dobby, a number of others. *NM*
10/12/2010 09:12:30 PM
- 908 Views
Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
10/12/2010 11:23:09 PM
- 1922 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
13/12/2010 08:47:27 PM
- 1741 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
13/12/2010 09:26:58 PM
- 1945 Views
On a side note about wands
14/12/2010 06:05:13 PM
- 1775 Views
Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
- 1795 Views
Re: Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
- 1851 Views
Plot, writing, themes. *NM*
10/12/2010 09:13:37 PM
- 902 Views
An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
10/12/2010 11:24:05 PM
- 1660 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
20/12/2010 01:00:38 PM
- 1823 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
20/12/2010 07:32:48 PM
- 1836 Views
Chapters 25-27: Shell Cottage, Gringotts, The Final Hiding Place
13/12/2010 10:03:15 PM
- 1656 Views
Characters *NM*
13/12/2010 10:03:29 PM
- 861 Views
Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 05:16:51 PM
- 1804 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:04:09 PM
- 1767 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:19:04 PM
- 1845 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:37:00 PM
- 1713 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:45:36 PM
- 1841 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
20/12/2010 03:33:49 PM
- 1858 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
20/12/2010 07:35:51 PM
- 2038 Views
Plot, action, etc. *NM*
13/12/2010 10:04:02 PM
- 857 Views
red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle.
14/12/2010 05:17:11 PM
- 1574 Views
Other things. *NM*
13/12/2010 10:04:23 PM
- 769 Views
Film stuff
14/12/2010 05:17:18 PM
- 1669 Views
Excellent point.
14/12/2010 10:05:01 PM
- 1654 Views
Re: Excellent point.
14/12/2010 10:09:53 PM
- 1669 Views
Sometimes Rowling's parallels are far too simplistic and unsophisticated.
20/12/2010 03:39:50 PM
- 1674 Views
Chapters 28-30: The Missing Mirror, The Lost Diadem, The Sacking of Severus Snape *NM*
16/12/2010 01:07:20 PM
- 898 Views
Characters *NM*
16/12/2010 01:07:31 PM
- 831 Views
Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
16/12/2010 11:52:46 PM
- 1936 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
20/12/2010 05:16:13 PM
- 1786 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
20/12/2010 11:02:45 PM
- 1764 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
26/12/2010 08:43:03 PM
- 1774 Views
Writing, action, plot, theme, yadda yadda yadda. *NM*
16/12/2010 01:08:04 PM
- 853 Views
red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
16/12/2010 11:53:56 PM
- 1763 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
20/12/2010 05:38:46 PM
- 1738 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
20/12/2010 11:06:01 PM
- 1923 Views
Other things. *NM*
16/12/2010 01:08:25 PM
- 876 Views
Chapters 31-33: The Battle for Hogwarts, The Elder Wand, The Prince's Tale
19/12/2010 07:56:39 PM
- 1735 Views
Characters: far too many to mention.
19/12/2010 07:58:41 PM
- 1613 Views
Too many to mention, indeed.
20/12/2010 09:30:54 AM
- 1952 Views
The action, and plot advancement and completion.
19/12/2010 08:00:09 PM
- 1757 Views
memories, cinematic moments and parallels.
20/12/2010 09:32:27 AM
- 1510 Views
Chapters 34-36: The Forest Again, King's Cross, The Flaw in the Plan
20/12/2010 07:31:27 PM
- 1612 Views
Characters: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, et al.
20/12/2010 07:32:15 PM
- 1642 Views
Harry, Dumbledore, Neville, the Malfoys, Molly and Voldemort
20/12/2010 11:28:19 PM
- 1767 Views
Tying up the plot.
20/12/2010 07:33:00 PM
- 1622 Views
Narnia, blood, revenge of the downtrodden, sacrifice, plans and souls
20/12/2010 11:29:44 PM
- 1761 Views
Epilogue: the future.
20/12/2010 07:35:06 PM
- 1752 Views