Active Users:619 Time:23/11/2024 03:00:19 PM
Because he is shit? Camilla Send a noteboard - 14/09/2009 09:38:59 PM
I'm posting this discussion as its own thread because I've seen a lot of visceral hatred of Dan Brown and all things appurtenant thereto, and I frankly don't understand it.

From what I can tell, people hate Dan Brown for one of the following reasons:

1. He writes fiction but pretends that some of it is true or based in truth

2. He plays on the ignorance of the general populace to sell books

or

3. He slanders the Roman Catholic Church and traditional Christianity.

Let's take these points in reverse order:

Allegations of Slandering Christianity

First of all, this point shouldn't be relevant in modern society. Enough books, movies and television shows have been made that are far more slanderous or libelous from a standpoint of faith than Dan Brown's little books. The Last Temptation of Christ is just as unorthodox, The Jesus Mysteries claim that there was no historical Jesus and your standard Jack Chick comic strip is more rabidly anti-Catholic than the lot just mentioned. Furthermore, Dan Brown's notion about Jesus and Mary Magdalene is simply a regurgitation of ideas and beliefs that were around in 300 AD (with the exception of the Merovingian bloodline claims, which are just silly). Regardless, given the composition of this website, I don't think this is the primary reason your average RAFhOle doesn't like Dan Brown.

Allegations Dan Brown Uses Ignorance to His Advantage

Good for him! People who choose to remain ignorant deserve a good fleecing every now and then. Furthermore, I don't see how Dan Brown in this regard is different from thousands of writers who print books for the gullible public which are NOT in novel form but which purport to "document" alien encounters, seances with spirits, the Loch Ness Monster, the Yeti, hollow earth theories, Illuminati conspiracies and the like. Dan Brown does admit that his book is a work of fiction. He isn't like John Edward, who claims he can speak with dead people for money, or even like your garden variety psychic or astrologer, the vast majority of whom are almost certainly quacks.

Allegations Dan Brown passes off Fiction as Fact

Basically, from what I can tell, the problems that people have in this regard is that he states that the Priory of Sion is centuries old, when in fact it is clearly not, or a few other points like that. The simple fact is that a lot of the material that he references to make his work of fiction are really in existence. I own a critical edition of the Nag Hammadi library in English and Coptic and there is indeed a Gnostic text where Jesus and Mary Magdalene are said to be more than just friends and that they would kiss one another in front of the disciples. There is a gnomon in St. Sulpice.

Yes, Brown misstates some things and exaggerates the importance of other things. On the other hand, how is he different from virtually ever writer of fiction out there? Hell, let's take an example of a movie that I like - The Mummy with Brendan Fraser. As someone with a love of Egypt, the film is about maybe 2% accurate in its portrayal of Egypt (if that). The sequel was even worse, though admittedly some of the errors that I found the grossest were the result of the studios asking Egyptologists about constructed original forms for words rather than New Kingdom vocalizations, which led to silly pronunciations like "yamun" for what should have been "aman" (indeed, the Amarna Letters confirm this pronunciation and scholars have written that there is no dispute about this pronunciation, nor has there been for over 50 years).

The point is that I'm used to this in entertainment.

What am I missing?



As someone who mainly hates him in part because of the "he pretends he is writing fiction when it suits him, and facts when that suits him", I should probably reply. I would be fine with shitty fiction. People can read it if they want to throw their lives away. It is sad, but there it is. But. He goes out of his way to keep people ignorant. If he said "I took some stuff, couldn't be bothered to actually check my facts, because, you know, I don't have that kind of respect for my readers; and then I lumped it together with some two-dimensional characters in a semi-predictable plot", I would be fine with that.

But he only says "this is fiction" whenever someone confronts him with all his facts being wrong. I have seen him sit on National Geographic saying "this is Truth (apart from the two-dimensional characters, which was all my sad excuse for a brain could muster)" (he may not have actually said the bit in the paranthesis). THAT annoys me.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
also, here is a rather longer one in Norwegian, written a few years back
Reply to message
Why is it that so many people hate Dan Brown? - 14/09/2009 09:24:31 PM 2238 Views
His prose is bad. Very bad. - 14/09/2009 09:28:28 PM 1087 Views
It's not any worse than Robert Jordan's prose. I'd say it's better, in fact. - 14/09/2009 09:30:17 PM 956 Views
Re: It's not any worse than Robert Jordan's prose. I'd say it's better, in fact. - 14/09/2009 09:32:44 PM 1113 Views
In defense of italics... - 14/09/2009 11:58:35 PM 1036 Views
Re: In defense of italics... - 15/09/2009 08:02:56 AM 1063 Views
I just rechecked... - 15/09/2009 11:17:23 AM 967 Views
Thereby... - 15/09/2009 10:31:44 PM 1003 Views
I have a problem with comparing those italics. - 15/09/2009 10:33:53 PM 1007 Views
Oh probably - 15/09/2009 10:40:15 PM 1005 Views
Hehe - 15/09/2009 10:42:23 PM 1090 Views
In defense of nothing in particular... - 15/09/2009 11:16:09 PM 1093 Views
Re: Thereby... - 16/09/2009 10:40:18 AM 1154 Views
I love that line, and nothing you say will change that. - 15/09/2009 11:15:29 PM 983 Views
That line is great - 15/09/2009 11:21:03 PM 998 Views
Jordan didn't have the good sense TO FINISH ANY FUCKING PLOT THREAD - 15/09/2009 04:46:06 AM 984 Views
Wow, the vehemence. - 15/09/2009 05:55:38 AM 1008 Views
Riddle me this, Batman - if he weren't dying, would he have even done that? *NM* - 15/09/2009 01:53:57 PM 586 Views
Yes. - 15/09/2009 03:38:34 PM 1005 Views
burn *NM* - 15/09/2009 04:24:49 PM 467 Views
Relevant post as always Celia *NM* - 15/09/2009 11:36:34 PM 563 Views
So you say... - 16/09/2009 02:17:47 AM 978 Views
No, he didn't. - 16/09/2009 04:44:31 AM 1043 Views
Re: Jordan didn't have the good sense TO FINISH ANY FUCKING PLOT THREAD - 15/09/2009 08:05:26 AM 1015 Views
His attitude to history isn't really any different from that of most writers - 15/09/2009 01:54:55 PM 981 Views
Except - 15/09/2009 04:56:23 PM 1004 Views
And ALSO except - 17/09/2009 02:59:03 PM 1096 Views
Re: And ALSO except - 17/09/2009 05:27:40 PM 992 Views
I vehemently disagree with this! - 14/09/2009 09:33:05 PM 1267 Views
How many chapters of Aes Sedai dresses and horse names did we go through in his books? - 15/09/2009 04:45:04 AM 1026 Views
I'd have a slow moving plot to fast moving nonsense any day. - 15/09/2009 05:36:20 AM 1083 Views
With Jordan, that movement was glacial - 15/09/2009 01:58:08 PM 978 Views
so...your problem with jordan is that you're impatient? - 15/09/2009 04:26:07 PM 924 Views
How many of us can say we're not antsy to know what happened? - 15/09/2009 05:03:24 PM 981 Views
So plot progression is all that matters? What about the other stuff I mentioned? *NM* - 15/09/2009 04:50:06 PM 460 Views
Jordan's characters are just as two-dimensional as Brown's - 16/09/2009 02:17:19 AM 936 Views
Bull... - 16/09/2009 03:15:49 AM 985 Views
No, I think you're just blinded by liking WoT - 17/09/2009 03:00:28 PM 947 Views
No, you seem to be blinded by disliking him, more like. - 17/09/2009 06:25:21 PM 962 Views
It's not hyperbole. - 17/09/2009 08:13:47 PM 987 Views
Yeah like that's not the case with you and Dan Brown. - 17/09/2009 06:56:37 PM 1008 Views
I don't think Dan Brown is a stellar writer. - 17/09/2009 08:11:41 PM 966 Views
Heh. It was "favourite" fantasy series not "best". - 17/09/2009 08:19:02 PM 960 Views
Then why defend him? - 18/09/2009 12:14:35 AM 926 Views
No - 18/09/2009 10:09:02 AM 1099 Views
Examples. - 17/09/2009 01:53:21 AM 1160 Views
LOL - 17/09/2009 03:16:23 PM 1021 Views
Because he is shit? - 14/09/2009 09:38:59 PM 1225 Views
Camilla, you've read shit before and liked it. - 15/09/2009 04:43:24 AM 992 Views
Re: Camilla, you've read shit before and liked it. - 15/09/2009 08:04:18 AM 978 Views
Yes, I was talking about the book. - 15/09/2009 01:58:54 PM 930 Views
Re: Yes, I was talking about the book. - 15/09/2009 04:56:53 PM 925 Views
Also - 14/09/2009 09:41:25 PM 1019 Views
Hate is a strong word. - 14/09/2009 09:44:02 PM 1093 Views
Nicely put. *NM* - 14/09/2009 09:46:03 PM 497 Views
*NM* - 15/09/2009 04:16:35 AM 506 Views
He still didn't dick around with us as long as Robert Jordan did. *NM* - 15/09/2009 04:41:01 AM 500 Views
I'm not disagreeing with you on that one. *NM* - 15/09/2009 12:12:52 PM 528 Views
Elitism and frustration he sells so much and better authors don't? - 14/09/2009 09:51:39 PM 928 Views
I think so. - 15/09/2009 04:40:20 AM 993 Views
you thought meyers was entertaining???? - 15/09/2009 04:28:48 PM 952 Views
You thought it wasn't entertaining? - 15/09/2009 07:42:06 PM 960 Views
I would phrase that 'better' authors - 15/09/2009 10:29:54 PM 973 Views
Okay, fair enough. - 15/09/2009 11:16:56 PM 883 Views
Given that I know nothing about Dan Brown - 14/09/2009 09:54:15 PM 1074 Views
Pfft! ~locks your reply~ - 14/09/2009 10:00:23 PM 970 Views
ooo, lock me baby! - 14/09/2009 10:12:48 PM 1043 Views
A couple of the above points, and Suspension of Disbelief. - 14/09/2009 10:23:26 PM 1036 Views
Good point about the "Ridiculous Things", that bugged me too. - 14/09/2009 10:35:32 PM 1095 Views
there is a difference between a book, which is a respectable medium, and a hollywood movie. - 14/09/2009 10:41:06 PM 941 Views
There is really only a difference if you're looking for some higher learnin' - 14/09/2009 10:52:39 PM 1013 Views
That statement makes no sense. *NM* - 14/09/2009 10:55:53 PM 392 Views
She must have been reading too much Dan Brown. - 14/09/2009 10:58:51 PM 972 Views
Yes it does - 14/09/2009 11:00:41 PM 934 Views
Only to the strangest of elitists. *NM* - 15/09/2009 12:49:53 AM 515 Views
Go read screenplays for fun, populist. *NM* - 15/09/2009 10:20:01 AM 536 Views
- 15/09/2009 06:25:26 PM 967 Views
Oh, I am sorry. - 16/09/2009 11:11:07 AM 860 Views
Well... - 14/09/2009 11:16:00 PM 942 Views
I accept your points, but also your final statement - 15/09/2009 04:38:46 AM 929 Views
More to the point then... people don't really need a good reason to hate something in particular. - 15/09/2009 06:00:33 AM 1003 Views
You didn't even like him as Mugatu in Zoolander? *NM* - 15/09/2009 01:47:57 PM 499 Views
Now, now. - 15/09/2009 07:03:48 PM 941 Views
Suspension of disbelief is a relative thing - 15/09/2009 11:25:32 PM 1016 Views
Damn near everything is a relative thing. - 16/09/2009 05:25:48 AM 1021 Views
I'm indifferent to him - 15/09/2009 01:14:37 AM 999 Views
If you're indifferent, you are apparently in a minority. - 15/09/2009 04:36:28 AM 948 Views
To put Brown's mediocrity in perspective, read Da Vinci and then Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco. *NM* - 15/09/2009 01:32:11 AM 513 Views
Eh, I enjoyed DaVinci better. You can all crucify me now. - 15/09/2009 01:49:28 AM 930 Views
Re: Eh, I enjoyed DaVinci better. You can all crucify me now. - 15/09/2009 01:54:17 AM 1065 Views
Re: Rose - 15/09/2009 02:16:53 AM 954 Views
As someone who appreciated Foucault's Pendulum I don't argue his mediocrity. - 15/09/2009 04:30:31 AM 827 Views
I agree with your last sentence strongly. - 26/09/2009 08:18:42 PM 1170 Views
I don't hate him, and I've never read any of his books - 15/09/2009 01:45:37 AM 935 Views
He was over hyped to me. - 15/09/2009 04:15:32 AM 950 Views
I agree it was way overhyped. - 16/09/2009 02:12:39 AM 887 Views
Heh, I actually had the opposite. - 16/09/2009 05:26:55 AM 958 Views
The thing I hate the most is actually the fans who suddenly "know" stuff.... - 15/09/2009 07:49:22 AM 1080 Views
Yes! *NM* - 15/09/2009 08:06:35 AM 480 Views
I try to avoid stupid people like that altogether - 15/09/2009 01:49:53 PM 883 Views
And move to a deserted island? - 15/09/2009 02:33:01 PM 1134 Views
Those people are everywhere, but you don't have to talk to them - 17/09/2009 03:02:24 PM 1007 Views
Lol. I agree wholeheartedly. - 16/09/2009 02:17:51 AM 1004 Views
My take on why Dan Brown is so disliked. - 15/09/2009 08:51:04 AM 1047 Views
He 'true' book claims 5 million women were killed during the witch hunt - 15/09/2009 11:55:40 AM 943 Views
I would hardly say I hate him - 15/09/2009 02:33:13 PM 989 Views
I think it's more the totally inexplicable nature of his success - 15/09/2009 03:48:28 PM 1109 Views
Eragon and Twilight indicate all that is evil to me in the world - 15/09/2009 04:33:29 PM 1080 Views
I hardly think it's that inexplicable. - 15/09/2009 04:33:39 PM 947 Views
Honestly, his works play on a very basic fact of human psychology., - 16/09/2009 02:23:56 AM 1043 Views
Misplaced superiority. - 15/09/2009 05:10:34 PM 1021 Views
Well, regarding goodkind... - 15/09/2009 05:23:34 PM 982 Views
I couldn't say... - 15/09/2009 05:57:12 PM 1047 Views
It's pure literary snobbery - 15/09/2009 11:08:44 PM 987 Views
I agree with you 100%. - 16/09/2009 02:20:11 AM 913 Views
Very nice summary. - 16/09/2009 02:32:38 AM 1064 Views
That's more than a little unfair. - 16/09/2009 05:29:59 AM 924 Views
Dan Brown is a snob. - 16/09/2009 06:32:21 AM 1082 Views
because all of the cool kids hate him - 15/09/2009 11:17:29 PM 865 Views
He has an enormous schwanzstucker. *NM* - 16/09/2009 01:18:37 AM 653 Views
I figured that'd set most guys against him. *NM* - 16/09/2009 01:51:56 AM 516 Views
I don't get it either. - 16/09/2009 02:01:04 AM 913 Views
I think you'll appreciate this Tom - 16/09/2009 03:03:24 PM 1115 Views
Hmm. The sneerathon seems like a good idea. - 16/09/2009 03:52:15 PM 960 Views
That was lovely, thank you! - 17/09/2009 03:04:46 PM 947 Views
My pleasure - 17/09/2009 03:58:31 PM 999 Views
And yet there's still no "Why do so many people hate Faile?" post on the WoT board... *NM* - 18/09/2009 04:05:26 PM 651 Views
How do you know? *NM* - 18/09/2009 04:57:15 PM 518 Views
I pop in there on occasion. - 18/09/2009 05:09:59 PM 1240 Views
Oh, it's a job. - 18/09/2009 07:35:32 PM 1065 Views

Reply to Message