Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur...
Seriana Sedai Send a noteboard - 20/10/2010 09:46:08 PM
Slughorn...while he is the kind of person I detest in real life I find Slughorn oddly charming even when he is quite clearly only out for himself. I think he is the one who gives Harry the most information about Lily he's ever had. Well, until book 7, but definitely up to this point. Maybe I like Slughorn because he is clever. He is quick thinking and demonstrates it here in more than one way. Maybe I find it understandable that he would want to lay low, just not noble like most of our heroes in the series are. The musing can continue later I suppose.
He really incarnates the spirit of Slytherin, in a way. Ambitious, manipulative, preferring to pull the strings from the shadows instead of taking risks in the limelight. But unlike nearly everybody else in Slytherin (which is a big mistake on Rowling's part imho, but we'll get to that in due time, end of book seven), he's not on the evil side. He evidently has some remains of prejudice against Muggleborns, but isn't really set against them - kind of like how older people back in the day had this slightly dubious yet not really malevolently racist view of black people.
I was trying to think of a way to say the same thing, the not malevolently racist bit, but couldn't come up with anything. It's like a general attitude he has but he doesn't hold to it when someone is gifted like Lily or Dirk Creswell. I find it odd.
What's remarkable is that he has been on the run for a year, he says. So he must have expected Voldemort would try to recruit him long before Voldemort gave up his secrecy... interesting.
Dumbledore refers to his "considerable talents" and I think Slughorn is aware that he may be useful to Voldemort. Do you think this is arrogance on Slughorn's part or an astute observation and reaction?
Dumbledore...I feel a little conflicted about his dealing with Slughorn. We are clearly witnessing Dumbledore at his most manipulative, but I don't know what else he is to have done. He needs Slughorn close for a variety of reasons and the decision is ultimately left to Slughorn...I don't know. I like him a lot better in his broom closet conversation with Harry.
Manipulative isn't necessarily evil. Dumbledore plays dirty, perhaps, but Slughorn is old and wise enough to know he's being played, and takes the bait anyway. The choice is his. So I don't think Dumbledore is to blame here.
That's kind of how I feel about it ultimately, that Slughorn knows he's being played, but it still doesn't sit nicely with me. He does refer to Harry's presence by saying "Don't think I don't know why he brought you" or something similar. I'm ultimately okay with it, but not 100%
I wind up feeling sorry for Fleur. She's trying really hard. I think I feel sorry for her because I see some of myself in her actions. She tries really hard and then she puts her foot in her mouth. Like when she says there is nothing really to do if you don't like cooking. Totally true, and there is no way Mrs Weasley is sharing that responsibility, but still not the right thing to say here.
I don't know about trying really hard. The female Weasleys (which might as well include Hermione) are too hard on her, yes, but it's not as if she's entirely innocent in the matter. Fleur *is* arrogant, but then she has every reason to be, and she has a good heart. I imagine her attitude towards Bill's family isn't meant to be as rude as it ends up coming across, but she probably could have done more effort if she had bothered.
I'm not sure if we're really meant to infer here that Mrs. Weasley, Ginny and Hermione are really wrong with their initial attitude. There will be that reconciliation at the end of the book, but that isn't really presented as them being proven wrong, more as Fleur showing an unexpected side. Which isn't actually unexpected to the readers which remember her from book four. But yes, Harry is the one who has the best and most justified attitude towards her (no wonder, he's the one who knows her best apart from Bill).
See, now I adore Ginny, but I think she's really unfair. I think Fleur is trying in the beginning and then as she gets the attitude she stops trying as hard (the Christmas radio broadcast comes to mind, hardly her most endearing chapter). I never understood why everyone was so shocked that she still wants to marry Bill by the end, if anything I'd think she'd want to call it off before to get away from a family that doesn't want her.
Narcissa. I take it back, she is awful. Whatever devotion to her son she expresses she is clearly in line with at least some of Voldemort's aims with her reaction to Hermione. I'm thinking Draco never really stood a chance to be a decent human being.
She's a bigot, yes, certainly. But personally I'm not losing all sympathy for her here. Snape's oath seems to have lessened her worries about Draco greatly, but she still must be fearing for him, while he is clearly still quite confident at this point about it, and trying to escape her protectiveness. Someone as proud as Narcissa is always going to show her worst side in a confrontation like that one, she has a reputation to uphold, and of course Harry does hit her rather hard with the Lucius comments, probably harder than he realizes because he doesn't know about her fears Voldemort might kill or otherwise punish Lucius for his failure.
I felt badly for her briefly after the Lucius remark, until she hits back just as hard about Harry being reunited with Sirius.
I love our introduction to Fred and George's shop. They really are good businessmen and talented wizards even though we've been led to believe in the early books that they were screw ups.
It's interesting that Molly never brings up the matter of Harry having given them the initial loan, which Ron supposedly told her in a letter during book five. And she seems to have come to terms with it. It is an awesome scene ("Mr. Weasley and Mr. Weasley" is great), but I can't agree we've been led to believe that they were screw ups. Every time we've seen them, or very nearly, they were confident, capable and in control of the situation.
I didn't phrase that as well as I would have liked...I'll blame a lack of coffee. I meant how Mrs. Weasley has always wanted them to be more like Percy and being disappointed with their behavior. It provides a nice counterpoint to this to see them be successful and later showing their mother how much they appreciate her. I think they are great sons.
Draco. Every time I read this chapter I'm reminded of how we've been so misled. Harry is right about Draco for the entire book. He gets the specifics wrong sometimes, but he knows this trip is important and doesn't let it go. Harry has been wrong so many times we dismiss it like everyone in the book does but he is so, so very right.
Yeah, Harry is like a broken clock that way.
That's exactly it! He's right in the next book too about something big...so that's the second time a day, right?
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book Six, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
18/10/2010 06:12:40 PM
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General comments on the book.
18/10/2010 06:14:10 PM
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Suggestions.
18/10/2010 06:18:46 PM
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*cough*
09/11/2010 09:24:21 AM
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Chapters 1-3: The Other Minister, Spinner's End, Will and Won't.
18/10/2010 06:21:55 PM
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Characters: The three Ministers, Snape, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Dumbledore, the Dursleys.
18/10/2010 06:25:12 PM
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Re: Characters: The three Ministers, Snape, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Dumbledore, the Dursleys.
18/10/2010 06:55:06 PM
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Re: Characters: The three Ministers, Snape, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Dumbledore, the Dursleys.
19/10/2010 01:07:59 AM
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*spoilers for book 7* an assortment of characters
19/10/2010 01:01:35 AM
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Plotting and writing.
18/10/2010 06:27:40 PM
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*spoilers for book 7* focalisation and why I'l accept it this time, the power/powerless issue &stuff
19/10/2010 01:02:53 AM
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Re: *spoilers for book 7* focalisation and why I'l accept it this time, the power/powerless issue
20/10/2010 02:58:54 PM
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Re: *spoilers for book 7* focalisation and why I'l accept it this time, the power/powerless issue
20/10/2010 03:14:35 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
18/10/2010 06:28:16 PM
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Dumbledore-centered.
19/10/2010 01:03:05 AM
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Chapters 4-6: Horace Slughorn, An Excess of Phlegm, Draco's Detour. *NM*
20/10/2010 03:44:39 PM
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Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,...
20/10/2010 03:46:47 PM
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Re: Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,...
20/10/2010 05:27:26 PM
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(Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur...
20/10/2010 09:25:20 PM
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Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur...
20/10/2010 09:46:08 PM
- 1637 Views
Re: Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,...
20/10/2010 10:15:58 PM
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Dumbledore, Slughorn, Tonks, Mr & Mrs Weasley, Hermione, Narcissa and the twins.
20/10/2010 09:23:04 PM
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Re: Dumbledore, Slughorn, Tonks, Mr & Mrs Weasley, Hermione, Narcissa and the twins.
20/10/2010 09:56:28 PM
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Re: Dumbledore, Slughorn, Tonks, Mr & Mrs Weasley, Hermione, Narcissa and the twins.
20/10/2010 10:17:23 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
20/10/2010 03:48:07 PM
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So. Inferi are zombies aren't they? I just realised. Ick. Do they eat brains? *NM*
20/10/2010 09:24:03 PM
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I was kind of disappointed that Harry didn't remark on that fact. *NM*
22/10/2010 07:24:11 PM
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Chapters 7-9: Slug Club, Snape Victorious, The Half-Blood Prince *NM*
22/10/2010 07:23:03 PM
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Characters *NM*
22/10/2010 07:23:24 PM
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Harry, Romilda, Malfoy (in luuuve), Snape, Lavender Brown, McGonagall, Hermione and Slughorn.
22/10/2010 07:26:19 PM
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Love is in the air, evidently.
22/10/2010 07:54:35 PM
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Slytherin had been in need of new blood for a long time. (And assorted other comments.)
22/10/2010 10:34:49 PM
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Re: Slytherin had been in need of new blood for a long time. (And assorted other comments.)
25/10/2010 10:33:04 AM
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Plotting and writing. *NM*
22/10/2010 07:23:37 PM
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Dumbledore, patronuses and the DADA job.
22/10/2010 07:27:23 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
22/10/2010 07:23:50 PM
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I believe in Wrackspurts, too. And some questions.
22/10/2010 07:28:04 PM
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I'm not sure if I noticed this before, but awesome Tolkien shout-out there.
22/10/2010 09:58:27 PM
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Re: I'm not sure if I noticed this before, but awesome Tolkien shout-out there.
23/10/2010 05:34:25 PM
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Re: I'm not sure if I noticed this before, but awesome Tolkien shout-out there.
25/10/2010 10:35:43 AM
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Chapters 10-12: The House of Gaunt, Hermione's Helping Hand, Silver and Opals. *NM*
25/10/2010 05:00:02 PM
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Characters: The Gaunts, the Trio, Hagrid, and many more. *NM*
25/10/2010 05:02:07 PM
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Harry's continued insistence about Malfoy really irritates me (even though he's right).
25/10/2010 06:15:23 PM
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*lol*
25/10/2010 06:39:19 PM
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Re: Harry's continued insistence about Malfoy really irritates me (even though he's right).
26/10/2010 09:23:09 AM
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Trelawny, Ogden, Gaunt, Ron, Hermione, Ron and Harry
25/10/2010 10:23:55 PM
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Plotting and writing.
25/10/2010 05:03:16 PM
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Amazing amounts of accurate guesswork here, in hindsight.
25/10/2010 05:37:28 PM
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Re: Amazing amounts of accurate guesswork here, in hindsight.
26/10/2010 09:46:47 AM
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Anything else? *NM*
25/10/2010 05:03:32 PM
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Dumbledore still sounds like Stephen Fry. And reflections on the nature of Potions class.
25/10/2010 05:11:24 PM
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It's like baking, I think.
25/10/2010 05:32:42 PM
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Yes, exactly like baking - and advanced baking involves experimenting, substituting, improvising.
25/10/2010 06:42:42 PM
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Also, Parseltongue - is Harry that thick, or is it a magic thing?
25/10/2010 05:18:41 PM
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I think it's a magic thing.
25/10/2010 05:34:09 PM
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It can be learned actually. Dumbledore implies he knows it and Ron uses it in book 7
25/10/2010 05:55:28 PM
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Re: It can be learned actually. Dumbledore implies he knows it and Ron uses it in book 7
27/10/2010 04:31:45 PM
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parseltongue
25/10/2010 10:24:46 PM
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Interesting how many of our remarks are along similar lines. *NM*
25/10/2010 10:27:30 PM
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Chapters 13-15: The Secret Riddle, Felix Felicis, The Unbreakable Vow *NM*
27/10/2010 04:16:28 PM
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Characters: The Trio, Ginny, Tom Riddle, Draco,... *NM*
27/10/2010 04:17:12 PM
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Dumbledore, Voldemort, Ron & Hermione, Harry, Ginny, Luna
27/10/2010 10:31:39 PM
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My take on Ginny is rather different, I must say... at least this time around.
29/10/2010 01:47:20 PM
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Re: My take on Ginny is rather different, I must say... at least this time around.
29/10/2010 09:06:16 PM
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Re: My take on Ginny is rather different, I must say... at least this time around.
29/10/2010 11:02:15 PM
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Plotting and writing. *NM*
27/10/2010 04:17:26 PM
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plot and writing.
27/10/2010 10:30:14 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
27/10/2010 04:17:42 PM
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Re: Anything else?
27/10/2010 10:30:55 PM
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I wonder if that's actually true, though.
28/10/2010 10:39:20 AM
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Re: I wonder if that's actually true, though.
28/10/2010 10:44:22 AM
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Crabbe and Goyle show us what happens when you fail (most of? all of?) your OWLs.
29/10/2010 02:10:39 PM
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Chapters 16-18: A Very Frosty Christmas, A Sluggish Memory, Birthday Surprises *NM*
29/10/2010 05:40:39 PM
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Characters: The Trio, Fleur, Scrimgeour, Percy, Remus, Slughorn,... *NM*
29/10/2010 05:43:02 PM
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Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour
29/10/2010 08:51:58 PM
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Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour
02/11/2010 06:23:04 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
29/10/2010 05:44:04 PM
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Chapters 19-21: Elf Tails, Lord Voldemort's Requests, The Unknowable Room *NM*
01/11/2010 02:00:22 PM
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Characters: The Trio, the elves, Draco, Dumbledore,... *NM*
01/11/2010 02:00:56 PM
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the twins, Hermione, Ron, Luna, Voldemort, Draco and Tonks
01/11/2010 02:08:32 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
01/11/2010 02:01:27 PM
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I want to hear the joke about the hag, the Healer and the Mimbulus mimbletonia. *NM*
01/11/2010 02:10:11 PM
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Me too. And is a "hag" just an old witch, or something more specific?
03/11/2010 09:52:12 PM
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Re: Me too. And is a "hag" just an old witch, or something more specific?
03/11/2010 09:54:05 PM
- 1867 Views
Re: Me too. And is a "hag" just an old witch, or something more specific?
08/11/2010 01:54:59 PM
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Chapters 22-24: After the Burial, Horcruxes, Sectumsempra
03/11/2010 09:50:17 PM
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Characters. *NM*
03/11/2010 09:50:33 PM
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Malfoy, Ron & Hermione, Slughorn, Voldemort, Snape and Ginny.
04/11/2010 12:12:57 AM
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Plotting and writing. *NM*
03/11/2010 09:50:50 PM
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Harry wrong again, house elves, horcruxes, free will, well hidden clues and some irony *DH spoiler*
03/11/2010 10:35:20 PM
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Re: Stuff.
04/11/2010 04:28:04 AM
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Re: Stuff. *spoilers for book 7*
04/11/2010 09:10:19 AM
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This "we'll see in book seven" thing is getting old, but still that's what I have to say here...
04/11/2010 01:23:01 PM
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Chapters 25-27: The Seer Overheard, The Cave, The Lightning-Struck Tower
05/11/2010 05:37:42 PM
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Characters: Harry, Trelawney, Dumbledore, Draco, Snape. And maybe some other people. *NM*
05/11/2010 05:38:19 PM
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Romilda, Snape, Trelawny, Draco, Dumbledore, Voldemort, Harry *spoilers book 7*
05/11/2010 07:34:01 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
05/11/2010 05:39:43 PM
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I like how good magic is not flashy. Also, a Tolkien thing
05/11/2010 07:55:27 PM
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I didn't take the comparison as far, but the gate thing did remind me of Moria, yes. (DH spoilers)
05/11/2010 10:03:16 PM
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Chapters 28-30: Flight of the Prince, The Phoenix Lament, The White Tomb. *NM*
09/11/2010 02:13:12 PM
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Characters. *NM*
09/11/2010 02:13:25 PM
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Snape, Lupin, Hermione & Ron, the Order, Mrs Weasley & Fleur, Luna & Neville, Scrimgeour, Ginny *DH*
09/11/2010 02:20:01 PM
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Plotting and writing. *NM*
09/11/2010 02:13:40 PM
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Spoilers.
09/11/2010 02:26:38 PM
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Re: Spoilers.
09/11/2010 04:49:06 PM
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I'm assuming not even the Ministry knows 100% what she did.
13/11/2010 12:26:14 AM
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Very true.
15/11/2010 01:48:36 PM
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Not much, no, but there's one fairly crucial mention.
15/11/2010 04:37:23 PM
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With my keen attention to detail, I somehow missed that. Another good catch!
15/11/2010 09:36:37 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
09/11/2010 02:13:53 PM
- 715 Views
We did the Harry Potter marathon thing on Sunday
09/11/2010 02:28:08 PM
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This is definitely the most painfully altered of the movies.
09/11/2010 04:34:33 PM
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Re: This is definitely the most painfully altered of the movies.
09/11/2010 04:36:29 PM
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I just watched OotP again Saturday night... quite shocking there as well.
15/11/2010 04:45:48 PM
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Re: I just watched OotP again Saturday night... quite shocking there as well.
15/11/2010 04:50:57 PM
- 1508 Views