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Agreed. edited Camilla Send a noteboard - 30/09/2010 10:37:48 PM
The American (and possibly British, but I know less about that really) school system does have a very heavy literature component. By my standards, anyway, which of course are based on my Flemish school system. The amount of required books in HS was very small indeed for me, and most of them weren't even really the classics. Might have something to do with English obviously having a rather larger canon to choose from than Dutch, and with our needing to have more room for foreign languages. And also that we simply read more excerpts, including in the foreign language classes - I've read some Romeo & Juliet in school, alright, but not remotely all of it, and the only entire book I had to read in English was Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. In French, I don't think we even read a single whole book, just excerpts and short stories. Same in Latin and Greek class - one obviously doesn't have enough time to read even as much as a quarter of the Iliad, Odyssey, Aeneid, De Bello Gallico, and so on, so it's just a number of excerpts.


Same for me. There was very little required reading in school, only tantalising excerpts (which of course meant I would instantly pounce on them and read them in full). But I didn't like the obsession in Norway with reading "accessible books". The last years of high school I tried to convince my English teacher we should read Ivanhoe, but she turned it down and decided on Siri Hustvedt instead. I am still bitter.

How do you define a classic work or author?

No real definition, just the books that are generally considered to belong in the canon, I guess. Some are unquestionably so, others are less generally agreed upon. No doubt there are some differences between countries - more local books, perhaps lacking books that are so strongly connected to a given country that they're less relevant elsewhere, etc. Nathaniel Hawthorne for instance strikes me as an author who is very important in the US, but all but ignored elsewhere. To Kill a Mockingbird no doubt has more success abroad, but is still less relevant to non-Americans.


You cheated "Canon" is pretty much synonymous with "the classics", I'd say.

What are your favorite classic works?

I'm always terrible at choosing a single favourite, so bear with me here... I can't have a longer list than Camilla, surely, so it's all good.


Hey, my original list was very short. I just panicked.

From Antiquity: Antigone, Medea, Iliad and Odyssey, Tacitus' works in general even if I've read pitifully little of them, poetry by Sappho and Catullus.


Agreed.

Middle Ages and early modernity: some Shakespeare plays, the Racine plays I've read (Phèdre and Andromaque), Ibn Khaldun's Muqaddimah with the same remark as with the Tacitus (so I should probably read them entirely before listing them... but then again, one cannot create enough publicity for the overlooked brilliance of the Muqaddimah), the little I've read of Paradise Lost, the poetry of Hooft and Vondel (in Dutch, so doubt anyone else here will have read them...)


I haven't read the arab-sounding person. What is it? When is it? Where is it? And I have no idea who the Dutch ones are. As far as Milton goes ... I am torn. I like him in theory. his concepts (at least in Paradise Lost are interesting. But I dislike his style. Writing Latin in English just feels... stilted.

"Modern" classics: P&P, S&S and Emma by Austen, essentially everything by Poe, various works by Dumas, Age of Innocence by Wharton, Picture of Dorian Gray by Wilde, a few books by Leroux, Maupassant's short stories, Brideshead Revisited by Waugh, LotR by Tolkien, Dr. Zhivago by Pasternak, some stories by Borges, poetry by Yeats and Achterberg, To Kill a Mockingbird by Lee, 1984 by Orwell. And I'm going to add a complete unknown who kicks ass, just so perhaps some day someone will read him and I won't be the only person I know who does: James Elroy Flecker. Love his poems.


I agree. On all counts. Except I haven't read Achterberg and this Elroy Flecker person. I did not list Borges, but that was only because I got paranoid about period. I felt that if I was going to list him, I would have to list Calvino, and that would open a can of worms. It is silly. I think it is because Borges is so post-modern in outlook, while writing earlier.

And as for books too recent to be called classics, but still generally considered to be the future canon: Possession by Byatt, Unbearable Lightness of Being by Kundera, Love in Times of Cholera by Marquez, Pynchon's books even though I've never finished any (this is a bit of a recurring theme here...), and poetry by cummings, 't Hooft (Flemish, that one), and probably others I'm not thinking of now.

Well, I've probably forgotten lots in all time periods, but oh well.


I haven't read Pynchon except in minor extracts.

If you had to suggest just one, which would it be and why? (please not, "because it's good" )

Really depends on the person I make the suggestion to, no? But generally I recommend 1984 to anyone who hasn't read it yet, as it's really kind of a must-read imho, one has to think about those things. Several other works on that list kind of fit that description too, though.

What have you staunchly refused to read that might be considered a classic?

Hm. I don't know I'd go that far... but I have somewhat unreasonable prejudices against (and now I'm going to infuriate two people in this thread, so I better go run and hide) the Aeneid and Dickens' works in general.

Why don't you want to read it?

Eh, I'll read them eventually, but as for the cause of my views: with the Aeneid I think it's just a little too much "Roman literature is nothing compared to Greek literature, Virgil just ripped off Homer" propaganda in my school days. For Dickens, not sure, I guess I just have a bleak and depressing impression of his works.


I like both Virgil and Dickens, but I can see how some might not. Or how you might hesitate to approach them. It is a little like the image of Tolstoy's War and Peace that is bandied about. None of them are actually what they are presented as. Dickens is cheery much of the time, and almost always end on a happy ending. Virgil does draw on Greek myth, but it really transforms it, and I think anyone interested in history will find it fascinating.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
This message last edited by Camilla on 30/09/2010 at 10:42:31 PM
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The Classics - general discussion / survey - 30/09/2010 03:52:53 PM 1396 Views
My own answers. - 30/09/2010 04:38:33 PM 987 Views
I'm trying to read a bit of Shakespeare at the moment - 30/09/2010 07:20:02 PM 926 Views
Re: I'm trying to read a bit of Shakespeare at the moment - 30/09/2010 09:14:23 PM 922 Views
Get a copy with annotations! - 30/09/2010 10:56:12 PM 908 Views
Re: My own answers. - 30/09/2010 09:02:08 PM 1006 Views
Powdered Soup! - 30/09/2010 09:23:51 PM 1033 Views
Re: Powdered Soup! - 30/09/2010 09:34:06 PM 1274 Views
Re: Powdered Soup! - 30/09/2010 10:07:20 PM 960 Views
Re: Powdered Soup! - 30/09/2010 10:10:32 PM 1127 Views
They are much, much worse than powder soup. - 30/09/2010 09:50:07 PM 879 Views
Well, since they're made of paper... - 30/09/2010 10:09:41 PM 948 Views
Re: My own answers. - 30/09/2010 11:35:36 PM 982 Views
Cliff's notes - 05/10/2010 08:05:56 PM 1031 Views
Re: Cliff's notes - 05/10/2010 09:21:06 PM 1253 Views
Re: Cliff's notes - 06/10/2010 01:40:38 AM 1041 Views
It's cool. - 06/10/2010 04:42:13 PM 1089 Views
A classic is really any book with enduring value. - 30/09/2010 05:33:35 PM 963 Views
Re: A classic is really any book with enduring value. - 30/09/2010 06:46:02 PM 986 Views
Re: A classic is really any book with enduring value. - 30/09/2010 10:57:23 PM 922 Views
Re: A classic is really any book with enduring value. - 30/09/2010 11:39:16 PM 809 Views
Camilla, that's just because you're an atheist. - 01/10/2010 09:37:34 PM 874 Views
Yes. - 01/10/2010 09:51:32 PM 857 Views
Re: A classic is really any book with enduring value. - 01/10/2010 12:20:51 AM 1039 Views
totally problematic classics - 30/09/2010 08:07:22 PM 1012 Views
Re: totally problematic classics - 30/09/2010 09:26:46 PM 934 Views
I study them, apparently. - 30/09/2010 08:44:40 PM 1054 Views
I wish I could do that. - 30/09/2010 09:49:57 PM 965 Views
Less fun than you'd think. - 30/09/2010 10:52:10 PM 841 Views
Good survey. - 30/09/2010 10:23:18 PM 1031 Views
Agreed. edited - 30/09/2010 10:37:48 PM 996 Views
But but but Milton is beautiful - 30/09/2010 10:46:06 PM 931 Views
Sometimes. - 30/09/2010 10:47:28 PM 950 Views
Maybe I was unclear. - 30/09/2010 10:55:22 PM 963 Views
Re: Maybe I was unclear. - 30/09/2010 10:57:41 PM 842 Views
I'm glad you approve on the whole. - 30/09/2010 11:12:00 PM 965 Views
I generally do. - 30/09/2010 11:19:05 PM 962 Views
Excellent. Might as well include a Hooft poem anyway, in case anyone's interested... - 30/09/2010 11:40:24 PM 1127 Views
Re: Excellent. Might as well include a Hooft poem anyway, in case anyone's interested... - 30/09/2010 11:43:20 PM 962 Views
Dickens - 01/10/2010 02:42:42 PM 940 Views
Re: I generally do. - 30/09/2010 11:54:11 PM 1017 Views
Oh, and link to the Flecker poem: - 30/09/2010 11:42:30 PM 860 Views
Re: Good survey. - 01/10/2010 02:52:27 AM 1112 Views
My classics - 30/09/2010 10:54:56 PM 924 Views
Re: My classics - 01/10/2010 03:01:24 AM 1011 Views
Ah Cliff, I bow to thee - 30/09/2010 11:30:41 PM 1063 Views
Re: Ah Cliff, I bow to thee - 01/10/2010 03:18:58 AM 908 Views
Re: Ah Cliff, I bow to thee - 01/10/2010 05:20:10 AM 1003 Views
Re: Ah Cliff, I bow to thee - 01/10/2010 02:05:35 PM 946 Views
Re: Ah Cliff, I bow to thee - 02/10/2010 04:07:10 AM 964 Views
Ha, we weren't that far off after all. - 04/10/2010 08:11:39 PM 897 Views
I will not list 300+ books here, I promise - 01/10/2010 12:36:17 AM 1051 Views
O'Connor is wonderful. But I am not sure many can appreciate her. - 01/10/2010 02:50:54 AM 754 Views
I agree, thus the "confound" part in there - 01/10/2010 02:53:26 AM 841 Views
I figured as much. - 01/10/2010 03:08:26 AM 869 Views
I expected you to have quite a few as well. - 01/10/2010 03:25:06 AM 947 Views
Re: I will not list 300+ books here, I promise - 02/10/2010 11:23:37 AM 1008 Views
Criminy, I thought I was done with essay questions years ago. - 01/10/2010 01:39:56 AM 969 Views
Glad to bring back the school days. - 01/10/2010 01:49:48 PM 1010 Views
Re: Glad to bring back the school days. - 02/10/2010 05:32:47 AM 824 Views
not sure but I don't believe in instant classics - 02/10/2010 05:22:07 AM 985 Views
the bf and I are going to do a "Paradise Lost" book club... - 02/10/2010 08:29:38 AM 1096 Views
Mm, Doré's engravings are gorgeous. - 02/10/2010 11:40:48 AM 1007 Views
Re: Mm, Doré's engravings are gorgeous. - 02/10/2010 09:42:37 PM 973 Views

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