Re: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Snape, Ron and Hermione
Camilla Send a noteboard - 29/08/2010 03:11:25 PM
Harry: I like how there is something that is finally due to Harry which turns the tide. Not just his resistance to the Imperius curse, but the bead on the line between the two wands. It shows, if not his ability, at least his strength. It is not just luck that makes it possible for him to stand up to Voldemort.
True, plus his impressive escape. Though that proves yet again the complete incompetence of the average Death Eater. Like so often in fantasy or even in other stories, the good side has many people with character and competence, while the evil side has only one or a handful of highly powerful and competent villains, plus loads of clueless and expendable henchmen.
I suppose that makes sense in a way, since the evil side is about submission to a leader. In general, if you are terribly competent and confident in your own power you will be less likely to give that all over to follow someone else. The only ones who are competent are those who firmly believe in the cause.
Dumbledore: I love, love, love his entrance. I am not a fan of the all-round heroic type, but I have a very soft spot for power that is not normally on display when it finally is shown.
Agreed. I also like how Dumbledore, McGonagall and Snape - the three headmasters of Hogwarts throughout the series - work together when it comes down to it. Not the only time that happens. The moment where they come tell Dumbledore about the Dementor is great, McGonagall's fury contrasting with Snape's cold and calm derision for Fudge. Though having that happen in the infirmary felt like a contrived way of being able to show it without having to leave Harry's PoV again. Oh well.
Hm, yes. It is down to Rowling's books being detective novels, basically. And like the Holmes stories, or Poe (ad fontes...), the Watson style character must be the reader's channel of information. And Rowling is a strong believer in the "showing, not telling" school of writing. She would therefore be reluctant to have someone tell Harry the story of how Crouch got ... what term would be the appropriate one? de-souled?
Once Harry tells him of the blood Voldemort took, we get the reticence which forms the pattern for the next book. I get the impression that while he has up to this point kept things from Harry because he is too young, he will now keep things from Harry that he does not Voldemort to find out. And I suppose this is a key point.
Hm, I guess, yeah. He really should have told him more at this point, in hindsight... not all of it perhaps, but more.
Hmmm, maybe. Although considering the possibility that Voldemort could gain access to the whole of the information Harry holds, that would be a bit of a gamble.
Dumbledore also sees Fudge for what he really is. I am a little surprised that he had not already done this, but I suppose it takes a great crisis to bring out the mettle of the man, and Fudge has not had to face one before. Still, I like to think of Dumbledore as a good judge of character.
I think Dumbledore knew Fudge was weak, but assumed he would follow his lead if things turned ugly. Likely Fudge would have, too, earlier in his tenure as Minister. But after all those years of having people suck up to him and inflate his sense of importance while poisoning him against Dumbledore, he doesn't bend to Dumbledore's will anymore. That makes more sense for Dumbledore to suddenly realize, then merely that Fudge is weak and not the best man for the job under the circumstances. Harry's realization is about Fudge's character flaws, but I think Dumbledore's is more like a sudden realization that he has let his grip on Fudge slide too far and that he can't regain his lost influence anymore. Not that he doesn't try, but he must know beforehand it's a lost cause, surely.
Yes, you are probably right.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book Four Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
16/08/2010 09:28:48 AM
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Chapters 1-3: A different beginning
16/08/2010 09:30:26 AM
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Early characters
16/08/2010 09:32:12 AM
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Re: Early characters
16/08/2010 11:02:23 AM
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Early plotting.
16/08/2010 09:32:52 AM
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Re: Early plotting.
16/08/2010 11:02:09 AM
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It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 11:38:14 AM
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Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 11:47:16 AM
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Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 12:16:16 PM
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Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 12:36:30 PM
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Re: Early plotting.
17/08/2010 01:15:43 AM
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Any other comments/observations
16/08/2010 09:33:34 AM
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Mob mentality and British euroscepticism.
16/08/2010 10:37:10 AM
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people in groups and baffling violence. And the godawful recaps
16/08/2010 11:03:09 AM
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Yeah, I agree about the recaps, they're pointless at this point. *NM*
16/08/2010 11:17:37 AM
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Good news! HP really caught on after this book and so the last books don't have a recap! *NM*
16/08/2010 03:27:24 PM
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Chapters 4-6 - The Weasleys
16/08/2010 09:33:57 AM
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Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 08:22:33 AM
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Re: Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 11:07:43 AM
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Re: Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 12:18:30 PM
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Re: Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 12:24:41 PM
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Also on the topic of Amos' talk of Cedric and Harry... (spoilers for end of book)
17/08/2010 12:44:19 PM
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Re: Also on the topic of Amos' talk of Cedric and Harry... (spoilers for end of book)
17/08/2010 12:47:29 PM
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Oh, I can think of a few more things that will prove relevant. But that's for tomorrow. *NM*
17/08/2010 12:51:50 PM
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And arguably another one of those fun names with a hidden meaning...
17/08/2010 07:47:43 PM
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Plotting - anything of note?
17/08/2010 08:23:53 AM
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Re: Plotting - anything of note?
17/08/2010 11:10:22 AM
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The Lovegoods? This is why reading in translation can be annoying...
17/08/2010 12:29:50 PM
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Re: The Lovegoods? This is why reading in translation can be annoying...
17/08/2010 12:38:09 PM
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I thought that might be it. Yeah, different names in the Dutch translation then. *NM*
17/08/2010 12:40:45 PM
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Any other comments/observations.
17/08/2010 08:24:20 AM
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Chapters 7-9 - The Quidditch World Cup and Death Eaters
16/08/2010 09:34:26 AM
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Characters: Ministers, Mothers, other important people.
18/08/2010 12:44:16 AM
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Plotting
18/08/2010 12:44:48 AM
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Other stuff.
18/08/2010 12:45:13 AM
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Krum Catching the Snitch
18/08/2010 02:28:58 AM
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It makes a certain amount of sense, I think...
18/08/2010 01:23:46 PM
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Clothes and other schools
18/08/2010 09:44:02 AM
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There's a first mention of Beauxbatons in chapter nine.
18/08/2010 01:37:14 PM
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Re: There's a first mention of Beauxbatons in chapter nine.
18/08/2010 01:45:58 PM
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Chapters 10-12: Back to Hogwarts and the Tri-Wizard Tournament. *NM*
16/08/2010 09:34:48 AM
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Characters: introducing Rita Skeeter and Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody. *NM*
19/08/2010 11:21:29 AM
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Re: Characters: introducing Rita Skeeter and Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody.
19/08/2010 05:23:11 PM
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Any other comments, observations or revelations? *NM*
19/08/2010 11:23:48 AM
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There was that Durmstrang reference I was waiting for.
19/08/2010 04:23:16 PM
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Re: There was that Durmstrang reference I was waiting for.
19/08/2010 05:41:04 PM
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Chapters 13-15: First lessons, and the arrival of the foreign guests *NM*
16/08/2010 09:35:09 AM
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Characters: The Trio, Neville, Moody, first impressions of Karkarov and Maxime *NM*
20/08/2010 11:49:04 AM
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Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 12:59:41 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:10:03 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:20:22 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:33:04 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:36:50 PM
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Plotting and writing. *NM*
20/08/2010 11:51:43 AM
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Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise if you say it like that).
20/08/2010 01:04:01 PM
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Re: Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise if you say it like that).
20/08/2010 01:55:29 PM
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Re: Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise if you say it like that).
20/08/2010 02:04:07 PM
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Anything else to add? *NM*
20/08/2010 11:52:05 AM
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Yes. Five things, actually. Magic, Snape, idiocy, apparating while presumed guilty aaand evil films.
20/08/2010 01:05:06 PM
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Trelawney, or how one can be a Seer and not even know it.
20/08/2010 01:46:09 PM
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Chapters 16-18: The Tri-Wizard Tournament begins *NM*
16/08/2010 09:35:31 AM
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Characters: The Champions, Hagrid, Karkarov, and of course Rita Skeeter in person *NM*
21/08/2010 01:10:53 PM
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Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 01:50:12 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 04:24:02 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 04:40:39 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 05:06:43 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 05:10:53 PM
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Oh, you're right, it is then. I thought you meant she said it to Harry.
21/08/2010 05:31:49 PM
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Re: Oh, you're right, it is then. I thought you meant she said it to Harry.
21/08/2010 05:41:44 PM
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The teeth comment was by far the best Snape one liner in the series.
23/08/2010 09:20:18 PM
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Re: The teeth comment was by far the best Snape one liner in the series.
23/08/2010 09:22:26 PM
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Definitely true
23/08/2010 10:02:46 PM
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Re: Definitely true
24/08/2010 06:20:53 PM
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Plotting and writing.
21/08/2010 01:12:24 PM
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plotting both for the book alone and the series as a whole
21/08/2010 01:39:10 PM
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Other comments, small details you noticed,...? *NM*
21/08/2010 01:12:53 PM
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House-elves, Hufflepuff and minds in gutter.
21/08/2010 01:35:38 PM
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Re: House-elves, Hufflepuff and minds in gutter.
21/08/2010 04:55:10 PM
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Re: House-elves, Hufflepuff and minds in gutter.
21/08/2010 04:59:55 PM
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I love the bouillabaisse thing.
21/08/2010 05:02:47 PM
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Re: I love the bouillabaisse thing.
21/08/2010 05:08:40 PM
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I associate blancmange more with Britain than with anywhere else...
21/08/2010 05:26:17 PM
- 1885 Views
Re: I love the bouillabaisse thing.
21/08/2010 05:12:54 PM
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No, no, the pudding and the bouillabaisse are two different things.
21/08/2010 05:24:50 PM
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Re: No, no, the pudding and the bouillabaisse are two different things.
21/08/2010 05:39:06 PM
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Hermione really comes into her own in this book.
27/08/2010 11:30:38 PM
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Agreed, but spending really all her time with those two boys does make it easier...
27/08/2010 11:36:20 PM
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Re: Agreed, but spending really all her time with those two boys does make it easier...
27/08/2010 11:48:19 PM
- 1852 Views
Chapters 19-21: The first task and House-Elves at Hogwarts *NM*
16/08/2010 09:35:53 AM
- 969 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Champions, Moody, Dobby and Winky,...
23/08/2010 10:40:21 AM
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The trio, Neville and the House-elves.
23/08/2010 11:07:50 AM
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Re: The trio, Neville and the House-elves.
23/08/2010 11:35:56 AM
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Re: The trio, Neville and the House-elves.
23/08/2010 11:44:08 AM
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Ron and Harry, Winky, various other thoughts.
23/08/2010 11:19:21 AM
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Re: Ron and Harry, Winky, various other thoughts.
23/08/2010 11:56:37 AM
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Plotting and writing: the first task and other events *NM*
23/08/2010 10:41:20 AM
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Good plotting in this section
23/08/2010 11:08:50 AM
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Anything else you want to comment on? *NM*
23/08/2010 10:41:39 AM
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I love that there is a book called Men Who Love Dragons Too Much. *NM*
23/08/2010 11:09:15 AM
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Chapters 22-24: The - rather eventful - Yule Ball *NM*
16/08/2010 09:36:30 AM
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Characters: The Trio, Champions and their dates, Karkarov, Hagrid and Olympe,...
24/08/2010 11:09:33 AM
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Ron and Hermione, mainly.
24/08/2010 11:47:49 AM
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Makes sense.
24/08/2010 01:15:37 PM
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Re: Makes sense.
24/08/2010 03:53:20 PM
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Re: Makes sense.
24/08/2010 05:00:59 PM
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Plotting and writing: a bit of a lull in the tension, perhaps, but there's still a lot going on. *NM*
24/08/2010 11:11:49 AM
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Yule Ball, preparation and aftermath
24/08/2010 11:48:30 AM
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Re: Yule Ball, preparation and aftermath
24/08/2010 02:18:04 PM
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Whatever else you want to say about these three chapters. *NM*
24/08/2010 11:12:33 AM
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Gender roles, Dobby, national stereotypes, creepy magic and gobbledegook.
24/08/2010 11:49:16 AM
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Re: Gender roles, Dobby, national stereotypes, creepy magic and gobbledegook.
24/08/2010 02:27:51 PM
- 1848 Views
Re: Gender roles, Dobby, national stereotypes, creepy magic and gobbledegook.
24/08/2010 04:15:15 PM
- 1907 Views
Ron's lasso comment is brilliant. Absolute genius.
24/08/2010 02:23:37 PM
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Lasso comment?
24/08/2010 04:20:35 PM
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When discussing methods to separate girls from their gang.
24/08/2010 04:27:47 PM
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Ah. Hehe. Yes.
24/08/2010 04:30:34 PM
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It's not really a humourous pun, just a nice find by the translator.
24/08/2010 04:45:34 PM
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Re: It's not really a humourous pun, just a nice find by the translator.
24/08/2010 04:48:50 PM
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Holy crap.
25/08/2010 02:44:57 PM
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Yeah, I don't know if the Google pictures are entirely representative...
25/08/2010 03:06:25 PM
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Chapters 25-27: The second task and Padfoot's return
16/08/2010 09:36:55 AM
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Characters: The Trio, Krum, Fleur, Sirius,... *NM*
25/08/2010 11:18:49 AM
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Snape, Percy, Hermione, Ron, Mrs Weasley and Sirius.
25/08/2010 05:31:18 PM
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I'm a bit worried about people's reactions to Snape during these discussions
25/08/2010 05:41:43 PM
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Re: I'm a bit worried about people's reactions to Snape during these discussions
25/08/2010 05:45:30 PM
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Agreed. Snape is one of the most fascinating characters I have ever read
25/08/2010 05:57:12 PM
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Fleur shows that, when push comes to shove, she has her priorities straight.
26/08/2010 10:54:11 AM
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Re: Fleur shows that, when push comes to shove, she has her priorities straight.
26/08/2010 11:21:59 AM
- 1823 Views
Plotting and writing: clues, red herrings and recapitulation *NM*
25/08/2010 11:19:47 AM
- 968 Views
Merpeople and the second task.
25/08/2010 11:34:40 AM
- 1877 Views
And something else I never understood about the second task
25/08/2010 02:32:51 PM
- 1880 Views
That's a good point, yeah...
25/08/2010 03:07:30 PM
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Maybe they should have had a magical big screen projection of what was going on in the lake lol
25/08/2010 03:57:48 PM
- 1830 Views
Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
25/08/2010 05:23:30 PM
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Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
25/08/2010 05:40:39 PM
- 1886 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
25/08/2010 05:42:52 PM
- 1777 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
26/08/2010 11:09:20 AM
- 1788 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
26/08/2010 11:17:36 AM
- 1933 Views
Marauder's Map.
05/09/2010 05:27:17 AM
- 1825 Views
Other comments. *NM*
25/08/2010 11:20:11 AM
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Two completely unrelated things.
25/08/2010 05:24:26 PM
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Re: Two completely unrelated things.
25/08/2010 05:36:29 PM
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Re: Two completely unrelated things.
25/08/2010 05:42:20 PM
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Chapters 28-30: Moving towards the climax *NM*
16/08/2010 09:37:22 AM
- 897 Views
Characters: The Trio, Krum, Karkarov, the Crouch family,... *NM*
26/08/2010 12:15:59 PM
- 980 Views
Madame Maxime, Crouch, Snape, Twins, Fudge and Neville
26/08/2010 02:48:04 PM
- 1840 Views
Plotting and writing: increasing signs of danger, and revelations about the past. *NM*
26/08/2010 12:16:50 PM
- 950 Views
Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues.
26/08/2010 02:50:29 PM
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Re: Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues.
26/08/2010 03:38:53 PM
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Re: Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues.
26/08/2010 03:51:32 PM
- 1884 Views
Chapters 31-33: The third task
16/08/2010 09:38:01 AM
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Characters: The Trio, the Champions, Voldemort, Wormtail,,... *NM*
27/08/2010 01:32:11 PM
- 991 Views
Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel
27/08/2010 03:50:03 PM
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Re: Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel
27/08/2010 05:09:48 PM
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Re: Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel
27/08/2010 05:23:14 PM
- 1800 Views
Plotting and writing: thrilling action, but also a fair bit of infodump/flashback. *NM*
27/08/2010 01:34:13 PM
- 953 Views
Stuff happens.
27/08/2010 03:50:33 PM
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Riddle Family.
05/09/2010 05:39:29 AM
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Anything else to add? *NM*
27/08/2010 01:34:39 PM
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Chapters 34-37: The climax and the aftermath *NM*
16/08/2010 09:38:22 AM
- 935 Views
Characters: Well, pretty much all of them, I guess. *NM*
28/08/2010 11:04:41 AM
- 957 Views
Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Snape, Ron and Hermione
28/08/2010 11:57:25 AM
- 1867 Views
Re: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Snape, Ron and Hermione
29/08/2010 03:00:49 PM
- 1796 Views
Re: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Snape, Ron and Hermione
29/08/2010 03:11:25 PM
- 2135 Views
Plotting and writing: tying up, explanations and setting up the future books. *NM*
28/08/2010 11:05:33 AM
- 933 Views
Revelations and then some
28/08/2010 12:02:36 PM
- 1820 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM*
28/08/2010 11:06:03 AM
- 973 Views
Two questions and one other thing.
28/08/2010 12:03:14 PM
- 1937 Views
The book as a whole: overall thoughts, comments and obversations
16/08/2010 09:39:24 AM
- 1847 Views
What do/did you think of Rowling's writing in this book?
16/08/2010 09:40:03 AM
- 1861 Views
I think she has more room to display her talent in this book.
28/08/2010 11:27:20 AM
- 1935 Views
Suggestions for the re-read.
16/08/2010 09:41:01 AM
- 1982 Views
Is it possible / easy to make the post an Announcement while it's ongoing?
17/08/2010 03:08:31 PM
- 1822 Views
When should we start the next book? And at which pace?
28/08/2010 11:09:07 AM
- 2093 Views
Re: When should we start the next book? And at which pace?
28/08/2010 12:05:31 PM
- 2069 Views