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Re: Early plotting. Camilla Send a noteboard - 17/08/2010 11:22:57 AM

And the reference to "my faithful servant at Hogwarts" is of course meant to throw us at Snape again.

I don't think this works as a reference to Crouch. At the time Voldy makes this comment, Crouch Jr. is still under his father's imperius curse. He doesn't escape until the Quidditch World Cup, and IIRC, Barty Jr. doesn't contact Voldy until after Winky is dismissed. I don't think Crouch was on Voldy's radar at the time he makes this statement. Also, even if this comment referenced a plan for Crouch to take Moody's place at Hogwarts, Voldy was taking a great deal for granted. There was no guarantee that Crouch Jr. could surprise and overcome Moody.


I think I agree with Legolas on this point. He seems to have a firm grasp of what plot there is.

The first chapter as Harry's dream is a little problematic. Later on when he has contact with Voldemort's mind, it is always seeing through Voldemort's eyes (I think) or the eyes of someone Voldemort is possessing. But here he appears to have alternately seen through the eyes of the caretaker and Voldemort.


Is the reader supposed to be experiencing Harry's dream, or is the reader seeing a scene from the caretaker's point-of-view, while Harry just happens to be dreaming about the same scene?


The reader is seeing the scene from the caretaker's point of view (it is one of the departures from Rowling's usual pattern that I discussed above). But when Harry wakes up he can remember it from the caretaker's pov

all Harry knew was that at the moment when Voldemort's chair had swung around, and he, Harry, had seen what was sitting in it, he had felt a spasm of horror which had awoken him

and then from Voldemort's

For there had definitely been an old man; Harry had watched him fall to the ground.


Interestingly, the cartaker was killed after the chair was turned, so it is unlikely that Harry woke up from the shock of seeing the thing in the chair -- it took him a while.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book Four Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Rebekah - 16/08/2010 09:28:48 AM 4115 Views
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Wormtail and Dudley Legolas - 16/08/2010 10:58:35 AM 1989 Views
Re: Wormtail and Dudley Camilla - 16/08/2010 11:11:11 AM 1905 Views
Something you just said there.... nossy - 16/08/2010 06:03:53 PM 1974 Views
Re: Early characters Camilla - 16/08/2010 11:02:23 AM 2208 Views
Re. Pigwidgeon. Elaine - 16/08/2010 02:39:21 PM 2058 Views
Re: Re. Pigwidgeon. Camilla - 16/08/2010 03:27:39 PM 1963 Views
Re: Early characters Mossman - 17/08/2010 01:23:59 AM 2074 Views
I like your explaination of why Voldemort calls Peter Wormtail Seriana Sedai - 17/08/2010 07:49:22 PM 1999 Views
Early plotting. Rebekah - 16/08/2010 09:32:52 AM 1904 Views
That first chapter works very well, I think. Legolas - 16/08/2010 10:20:48 AM 1939 Views
Re: That first chapter works very well, I think. Camilla - 16/08/2010 11:19:10 AM 2015 Views
Re: That first chapter works very well, I think. Mossman - 17/08/2010 12:49:42 AM 2033 Views
Re: Early plotting. Camilla - 16/08/2010 11:02:09 AM 2010 Views
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Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books) Camilla - 16/08/2010 11:47:16 AM 2008 Views
Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books) Legolas - 16/08/2010 12:16:16 PM 2236 Views
Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books) Camilla - 16/08/2010 12:36:30 PM 1906 Views
Re: Early plotting. Mossman - 17/08/2010 01:15:43 AM 1876 Views
No, it does. Legolas - 17/08/2010 01:24:16 AM 1893 Views
Re: No, it does. Mossman - 17/08/2010 01:45:00 AM 1962 Views
Re: Early plotting. Camilla - 17/08/2010 11:22:57 AM 1910 Views
Any other comments/observations Rebekah - 16/08/2010 09:33:34 AM 1815 Views
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Re: Mob mentality and British euroscepticism. Legolas - 16/08/2010 11:45:43 AM 2046 Views
people in groups and baffling violence. And the godawful recaps Camilla - 16/08/2010 11:03:09 AM 1953 Views
Yeah, I agree about the recaps, they're pointless at this point. *NM* Legolas - 16/08/2010 11:17:37 AM 1092 Views
Good news! HP really caught on after this book and so the last books don't have a recap! *NM* Dark Knight - 16/08/2010 03:27:24 PM 1057 Views
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Re: Characters - a few new ones Legolas - 17/08/2010 12:18:30 PM 1961 Views
Re: Characters - a few new ones Camilla - 17/08/2010 12:24:41 PM 1940 Views
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Amos annoyed me too. Seriana Sedai - 18/08/2010 08:29:56 PM 1888 Views
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Re: Also on the topic of Amos' talk of Cedric and Harry... (spoilers for end of book) Camilla - 17/08/2010 12:47:29 PM 2027 Views
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I thought that might be it. Yeah, different names in the Dutch translation then. *NM* Legolas - 17/08/2010 12:40:45 PM 1004 Views
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Cars Camilla - 17/08/2010 11:11:18 AM 2115 Views
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A lot of pent-up anger there, I sense *NM* Camilla - 19/08/2010 09:24:51 AM 1824 Views
Nice list, yeah. Legolas - 19/08/2010 10:51:07 AM 1950 Views
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There's a first mention of Beauxbatons in chapter nine. Legolas - 18/08/2010 01:37:14 PM 1910 Views
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Re: Plotting and writing. Camilla - 19/08/2010 05:23:37 PM 1846 Views
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It doesn't matter, no. Legolas - 19/08/2010 11:33:04 PM 1977 Views
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime Legolas - 20/08/2010 02:10:03 PM 2093 Views
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Moody is really well done. Legolas - 20/08/2010 01:15:55 PM 2032 Views
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Plotting and writing. *NM* Legolas - 20/08/2010 11:51:43 AM 999 Views
Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise if you say it like that). Camilla - 20/08/2010 01:04:01 PM 1873 Views
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I just realised Camilla - 20/08/2010 11:51:20 PM 1847 Views
Anything else to add? *NM* Legolas - 20/08/2010 11:52:05 AM 891 Views
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Trelawney, or how one can be a Seer and not even know it. Legolas - 20/08/2010 01:46:09 PM 1910 Views
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Oh, you're right, it is then. I thought you meant she said it to Harry. Legolas - 21/08/2010 05:31:49 PM 2074 Views
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The teeth comment was by far the best Snape one liner in the series. StormCrow - 23/08/2010 09:20:18 PM 1845 Views
Re: The teeth comment was by far the best Snape one liner in the series. Camilla - 23/08/2010 09:22:26 PM 2035 Views
Definitely true StormCrow - 23/08/2010 10:02:46 PM 2096 Views
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Re: Well, perhaps dues ex machina is a bit too much. Seriana Sedai - 25/08/2010 06:01:32 AM 1851 Views
Plotting and writing. Legolas - 21/08/2010 01:12:24 PM 2180 Views
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Re: plotting both for the book alone and the series as a whole Legolas - 21/08/2010 04:30:20 PM 2096 Views
Re: plotting both for the book alone and the series as a whole Camilla - 21/08/2010 04:35:22 PM 2155 Views
Other comments, small details you noticed,...? *NM* Legolas - 21/08/2010 01:12:53 PM 1005 Views
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Re: I don't know what you're talking about. Camilla - 21/08/2010 05:16:18 PM 2042 Views
Re: House-elves, Hufflepuff and minds in gutter. Cockatiel of Doom - 05/09/2010 05:11:11 AM 1970 Views
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Re: I love the bouillabaisse thing. Rebekah - 21/08/2010 05:08:40 PM 2121 Views
I associate blancmange more with Britain than with anywhere else... Legolas - 21/08/2010 05:26:17 PM 1953 Views
Re: I love the bouillabaisse thing. Camilla - 21/08/2010 05:12:54 PM 1829 Views
No, no, the pudding and the bouillabaisse are two different things. Legolas - 21/08/2010 05:24:50 PM 1807 Views
Re: No, no, the pudding and the bouillabaisse are two different things. Camilla - 21/08/2010 05:39:06 PM 2166 Views
Hermione really comes into her own in this book. Rebekah - 27/08/2010 11:30:38 PM 1746 Views
Agreed, but spending really all her time with those two boys does make it easier... Legolas - 27/08/2010 11:36:20 PM 1906 Views
Re: Agreed, but spending really all her time with those two boys does make it easier... Camilla - 27/08/2010 11:48:19 PM 1934 Views
Indeed Camilla - 27/08/2010 11:46:44 PM 2101 Views
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Re: The trio, Neville and the House-elves. Camilla - 23/08/2010 12:07:24 PM 2111 Views
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Re: Ron and Harry, Winky, various other thoughts. Camilla - 23/08/2010 11:56:37 AM 1952 Views
Re: Ron and Harry, Winky, various other thoughts. Legolas - 23/08/2010 01:58:39 PM 1821 Views
Re: Ron and Harry, Winky, various other thoughts. Camilla - 23/08/2010 02:08:53 PM 1856 Views
Plotting and writing: the first task and other events *NM* Legolas - 23/08/2010 10:41:20 AM 1022 Views
Good plotting in this section Camilla - 23/08/2010 11:08:50 AM 1973 Views
Yeah, definitely. Legolas - 23/08/2010 11:46:46 AM 1964 Views
Re: Yeah, definitely. Camilla - 23/08/2010 12:04:55 PM 1865 Views
Anything else you want to comment on? *NM* Legolas - 23/08/2010 10:41:39 AM 980 Views
I love that there is a book called Men Who Love Dragons Too Much. *NM* Camilla - 23/08/2010 11:09:15 AM 916 Views
Harry and Ron's fight is properly annoying. Rebekah - 08/09/2010 04:58:59 PM 2600 Views
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Ron and Hermione, mainly. Camilla - 24/08/2010 11:47:49 AM 2149 Views
Makes sense. Legolas - 24/08/2010 01:15:37 PM 1869 Views
Re: Makes sense. Camilla - 24/08/2010 03:53:20 PM 1859 Views
Re: Makes sense. Legolas - 24/08/2010 05:00:59 PM 1956 Views
Re: Makes sense. Camilla - 24/08/2010 05:19:34 PM 2042 Views
Re: Makes sense. Legolas - 25/08/2010 12:15:12 AM 2033 Views
Fred and George. Legolas - 24/08/2010 02:30:22 PM 1972 Views
Re: Fred and George. Camilla - 24/08/2010 04:17:10 PM 2060 Views
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Yule Ball, preparation and aftermath Camilla - 24/08/2010 11:48:30 AM 2061 Views
Re: Yule Ball, preparation and aftermath Legolas - 24/08/2010 02:18:04 PM 1887 Views
Re: Yule Ball, preparation and aftermath Camilla - 24/08/2010 04:13:57 PM 1905 Views
Re: Yule Ball, preparation and aftermath Legolas - 24/08/2010 04:33:14 PM 1948 Views
Whatever else you want to say about these three chapters. *NM* Legolas - 24/08/2010 11:12:33 AM 1068 Views
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Re: Gender roles, Dobby, national stereotypes, creepy magic and gobbledegook. Camilla - 24/08/2010 04:15:15 PM 1984 Views
Ron's lasso comment is brilliant. Absolute genius. Legolas - 24/08/2010 02:23:37 PM 1929 Views
Lasso comment? Camilla - 24/08/2010 04:20:35 PM 1924 Views
When discussing methods to separate girls from their gang. Legolas - 24/08/2010 04:27:47 PM 1923 Views
Ah. Hehe. Yes. Camilla - 24/08/2010 04:30:34 PM 2004 Views
It's not really a humourous pun, just a nice find by the translator. Legolas - 24/08/2010 04:45:34 PM 2070 Views
Re: It's not really a humourous pun, just a nice find by the translator. Camilla - 24/08/2010 04:48:50 PM 1955 Views
Holy crap. Elaine - 25/08/2010 02:44:57 PM 1868 Views
Yeah, I don't know if the Google pictures are entirely representative... Legolas - 25/08/2010 03:06:25 PM 1998 Views
Don't care, I choose to believe Elaine - 25/08/2010 03:21:37 PM 1852 Views
You may be disappointed when trying to buy one, then. Legolas - 25/08/2010 04:23:57 PM 2080 Views
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Characters: The Trio, Krum, Fleur, Sirius,... *NM* Legolas - 25/08/2010 11:18:49 AM 950 Views
Snape, Percy, Hermione, Ron, Mrs Weasley and Sirius. Camilla - 25/08/2010 05:31:18 PM 1835 Views
I'm a bit worried about people's reactions to Snape during these discussions Dark Knight - 25/08/2010 05:41:43 PM 2085 Views
Re: I'm a bit worried about people's reactions to Snape during these discussions Camilla - 25/08/2010 05:45:30 PM 1867 Views
Agreed. Snape is one of the most fascinating characters I have ever read Dark Knight - 25/08/2010 05:57:12 PM 1952 Views
Re: Snape, Percy, Hermione, Ron, Mrs Weasley and Sirius. Legolas - 26/08/2010 10:44:34 AM 2025 Views
Re: Snape, Percy, Hermione, Ron, Mrs Weasley and Sirius. Camilla - 26/08/2010 10:51:21 AM 1834 Views
Fleur shows that, when push comes to shove, she has her priorities straight. Legolas - 26/08/2010 10:54:11 AM 1765 Views
Re: Fleur shows that, when push comes to shove, she has her priorities straight. Camilla - 26/08/2010 11:21:59 AM 1910 Views
Makes more sense now. Seriana Sedai - 28/08/2010 05:00:26 AM 1818 Views
Re: Makes more sense now. Camilla - 28/08/2010 09:28:07 AM 1895 Views
Plotting and writing: clues, red herrings and recapitulation *NM* Legolas - 25/08/2010 11:19:47 AM 1003 Views
Merpeople and the second task. Legolas - 25/08/2010 11:34:40 AM 1943 Views
And something else I never understood about the second task Dark Knight - 25/08/2010 02:32:51 PM 1963 Views
That's a good point, yeah... Legolas - 25/08/2010 03:07:30 PM 1853 Views
Maybe they should have had a magical big screen projection of what was going on in the lake lol Dark Knight - 25/08/2010 03:57:48 PM 1905 Views
Re: That's a good point, yeah... Camilla - 25/08/2010 05:39:48 PM 1861 Views
Re: Merpeople and the second task. Camilla - 25/08/2010 05:38:55 PM 1829 Views
Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book. Camilla - 25/08/2010 05:23:30 PM 1894 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book. Deadsy - 25/08/2010 05:40:39 PM 1966 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book. Camilla - 25/08/2010 05:42:52 PM 1866 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book. Legolas - 26/08/2010 11:09:20 AM 1865 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book. Camilla - 26/08/2010 11:17:36 AM 2015 Views
Marauder's Map. Cockatiel of Doom - 05/09/2010 05:27:17 AM 1906 Views
Re: Marauder's Map. Camilla - 05/09/2010 10:09:48 AM 2100 Views
Re: Marauder's Map. Cockatiel of Doom - 05/09/2010 04:44:16 PM 1924 Views
Other comments. *NM* Legolas - 25/08/2010 11:20:11 AM 982 Views
Two completely unrelated things. Camilla - 25/08/2010 05:24:26 PM 1962 Views
Re: Two completely unrelated things. Dark Knight - 25/08/2010 05:36:29 PM 1927 Views
Re: Two completely unrelated things. Camilla - 25/08/2010 05:42:20 PM 2038 Views
Need a cough drop dear? Dark Knight - 25/08/2010 05:53:26 PM 1914 Views
Re: Need a cough drop dear? Camilla - 25/08/2010 05:55:41 PM 1913 Views
Re: Two completely unrelated things. Legolas - 26/08/2010 11:13:07 AM 2005 Views
Re: Two completely unrelated things. Camilla - 26/08/2010 11:18:42 AM 1874 Views
Second task. Cockatiel of Doom - 05/09/2010 05:30:01 AM 1971 Views
Chapters 28-30: Moving towards the climax *NM* Rebekah - 16/08/2010 09:37:22 AM 928 Views
Characters: The Trio, Krum, Karkarov, the Crouch family,... *NM* Legolas - 26/08/2010 12:15:59 PM 1018 Views
Madame Maxime, Crouch, Snape, Twins, Fudge and Neville Camilla - 26/08/2010 02:48:04 PM 1914 Views
Re: Madame Maxime, Crouch, Snape, Twins, Fudge and Neville Legolas - 26/08/2010 03:22:14 PM 1911 Views
Re: Madame Maxime, Crouch, Snape, Twins, Fudge and Neville Camilla - 26/08/2010 03:45:58 PM 1927 Views
Also Camilla - 26/08/2010 10:45:57 PM 1972 Views
Plotting and writing: increasing signs of danger, and revelations about the past. *NM* Legolas - 26/08/2010 12:16:50 PM 989 Views
Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues. Camilla - 26/08/2010 02:50:29 PM 1924 Views
Re: Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues. Legolas - 26/08/2010 03:38:53 PM 2150 Views
Re: Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues. Camilla - 26/08/2010 03:51:32 PM 1958 Views
Re: Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues. Legolas - 26/08/2010 04:05:12 PM 1907 Views
Re: Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues. Camilla - 26/08/2010 04:09:12 PM 1946 Views
Yes. Elaine - 27/08/2010 02:02:22 PM 1895 Views
Everything else. *NM* Legolas - 26/08/2010 12:17:07 PM 989 Views
My favourite category. Two things this time Camilla - 26/08/2010 02:51:16 PM 1799 Views
More owl comments. Cockatiel of Doom - 05/09/2010 05:35:49 AM 1922 Views
Chapters 31-33: The third task Rebekah - 16/08/2010 09:38:01 AM 1844 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Champions, Voldemort, Wormtail,,... *NM* Legolas - 27/08/2010 01:32:11 PM 1027 Views
Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel Camilla - 27/08/2010 03:50:03 PM 1816 Views
Re: Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel Legolas - 27/08/2010 05:09:48 PM 1810 Views
Re: Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel Camilla - 27/08/2010 05:23:14 PM 1875 Views
It's a good question... the mystery of Voldemort's wand. Legolas - 27/08/2010 06:01:19 PM 1914 Views
Re: It's a good question... the mystery of Voldemort's wand. Camilla - 27/08/2010 06:06:34 PM 2001 Views
Plotting and writing: thrilling action, but also a fair bit of infodump/flashback. *NM* Legolas - 27/08/2010 01:34:13 PM 993 Views
Stuff happens. Camilla - 27/08/2010 03:50:33 PM 1848 Views
So it does. Legolas - 27/08/2010 05:42:40 PM 1968 Views
Re: So it does. Camilla - 27/08/2010 05:55:33 PM 1895 Views
Re: Stuff happens. Cockatiel of Doom - 05/09/2010 05:48:41 AM 1996 Views
Re: Stuff happens. Camilla - 05/09/2010 10:08:49 AM 1904 Views
Riddle Family. Cockatiel of Doom - 05/09/2010 05:39:29 AM 1866 Views
No. The three dead bodies are... Legolas - 05/09/2010 12:19:48 PM 2000 Views
Re: No. The three dead bodies are... Cockatiel of Doom - 05/09/2010 04:46:26 PM 1986 Views
Anything else to add? *NM* Legolas - 27/08/2010 01:34:39 PM 980 Views
Naturally Camilla - 27/08/2010 03:50:58 PM 2037 Views
Re: Naturally Legolas - 27/08/2010 06:06:59 PM 1728 Views
Re: Naturally Camilla - 27/08/2010 06:11:26 PM 2198 Views
Chapters 34-37: The climax and the aftermath *NM* Rebekah - 16/08/2010 09:38:22 AM 967 Views
Characters: Well, pretty much all of them, I guess. *NM* Legolas - 28/08/2010 11:04:41 AM 997 Views
Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Snape, Ron and Hermione Camilla - 28/08/2010 11:57:25 AM 1941 Views
Re: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Snape, Ron and Hermione Legolas - 29/08/2010 03:00:49 PM 1875 Views
Re: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Snape, Ron and Hermione Camilla - 29/08/2010 03:11:25 PM 2215 Views
Plotting and writing: tying up, explanations and setting up the future books. *NM* Legolas - 28/08/2010 11:05:33 AM 967 Views
Revelations and then some Camilla - 28/08/2010 12:02:36 PM 1895 Views
The gleam in Dumbledore's eyes Dark Knight - 28/08/2010 11:26:30 PM 2287 Views
Re: The gleam in Dumbledore's eyes Camilla - 28/08/2010 11:28:35 PM 2119 Views
Re: Revelations and then some Legolas - 29/08/2010 03:22:46 PM 1873 Views
Re: Revelations and then some Camilla - 29/08/2010 03:37:45 PM 2000 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM* Legolas - 28/08/2010 11:06:03 AM 1015 Views
Two questions and one other thing. Camilla - 28/08/2010 12:03:14 PM 2020 Views
Re: Two questions and one other thing. Legolas - 29/08/2010 03:27:02 PM 2209 Views
Re: Two questions and one other thing. Camilla - 29/08/2010 03:31:43 PM 1911 Views
The book as a whole: overall thoughts, comments and obversations Rebekah - 16/08/2010 09:39:24 AM 1915 Views
What do/did you think of Rowling's writing in this book? Rebekah - 16/08/2010 09:40:03 AM 1945 Views
I think she has more room to display her talent in this book. Legolas - 28/08/2010 11:27:20 AM 2009 Views
I am not sure that is a good thing Camilla - 28/08/2010 12:17:56 PM 1954 Views
Re: I am not sure that is a good thing Legolas - 28/08/2010 11:00:29 PM 2039 Views
Suggestions for the re-read. Rebekah - 16/08/2010 09:41:01 AM 2058 Views
Is it possible / easy to make the post an Announcement while it's ongoing? StormCrow - 17/08/2010 03:08:31 PM 1899 Views
Well. Yes. Rebekah - 17/08/2010 06:22:10 PM 1951 Views
Ah! That really helps me too! aria - 17/08/2010 08:00:30 PM 1933 Views
Works for me too. Thanks for the tip! *NM* StormCrow - 17/08/2010 08:13:48 PM 991 Views
When should we start the next book? And at which pace? Legolas - 28/08/2010 11:09:07 AM 2197 Views
Re: When should we start the next book? And at which pace? Camilla - 28/08/2010 12:05:31 PM 2152 Views
School started and that threw me off. aria - 30/08/2010 09:01:31 PM 1982 Views
Mine was school as well. Seriana Sedai - 01/09/2010 05:33:24 AM 1992 Views
I just haven't checked the messageboards at all recently. Cockatiel of Doom - 03/09/2010 03:28:20 AM 1989 Views
That would be good Camilla - 03/09/2010 08:19:49 AM 1896 Views
I like that idea. Rebekah - 08/09/2010 04:55:49 PM 1938 Views
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