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Re: Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy dacole Send a noteboard - 29/07/2010 08:42:04 PM
I have yet to find a book that I would say is better overall than lord of the rings for that type of fantasy. Does it have problems yes, but I don't think you can say one of the problems is that it is simplistic. True evil does exist, that is something we forget at our peril.

A friend of mine, Paul Smith, wrote this essay earlier today in response to an earlier essay of mine on genre sacred cows and discussion of such. Since he has a few links to related discussions, I suggest you just click on the link and read his arguments.
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Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy Larry - 28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM 1650 Views
Nonsense, at least in part Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM 1216 Views
I know there is a polite difference of opinion here Larry - 28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM 1026 Views
So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM 1054 Views
i agree, and furthermore... LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:46:07 PM 1128 Views
Re: I know there is a polite difference of opinion here dacole - 29/07/2010 08:44:24 PM 1058 Views
Mno Camilla - 30/07/2010 09:07:18 AM 1137 Views
Have to agree. Seriana Sedai - 28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM 1120 Views
It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. Tim - 29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM 943 Views
*cough* Twilight *cough* Ghavrel - 29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM 979 Views
I was gonna mention that one too. Legolas - 29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM 1053 Views
Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM 874 Views
That's a fair point, I guess... Legolas - 29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM 1085 Views
mmm, except it's relevant to Bella too. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:43:03 PM 957 Views
That's my point, it's pretty much only relevant to Bella - only there is it shown prominently. *NM* Legolas - 29/07/2010 10:59:54 PM 479 Views
Of course, since she's the main character, it matters rather a lot, yes? *NM* Ghavrel - 30/07/2010 09:39:07 AM 469 Views
It's hardly tacit. I'm glad I've never read the things. Ghavrel - 30/07/2010 09:38:33 AM 1071 Views
Fair enough. Legolas - 30/07/2010 10:03:07 AM 1073 Views
Also: the writing is crap. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 01:04:12 PM 1017 Views
but plenty of us hate it after reading *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:24:35 PM 454 Views
How much do you have to read to form an opinion? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM 1032 Views
To the end Camilla - 29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM 904 Views
my reading time is too scarce to think that way random thoughts - 29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM 1108 Views
I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM 1081 Views
and I will random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM 809 Views
that's fair enough then LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:43:57 PM 877 Views
so I hear random thoughts - 29/07/2010 11:13:09 PM 839 Views
Re: To the end dacole - 29/07/2010 08:49:06 PM 950 Views
Re: To the end Camilla - 29/07/2010 10:34:44 PM 865 Views
Re: How much do you have to read to form an opinion? Legolas - 29/07/2010 01:49:21 PM 1054 Views
The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM* Dark Knight - 29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM 540 Views
He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now Lordling - 29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM 894 Views
It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM 854 Views
well you have not failed completely random thoughts - 29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM 851 Views
Re: well you have not failed completely Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM 898 Views
one quick question random thoughts - 29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM 939 Views
Re: one quick question Camilla - 29/07/2010 07:42:27 PM 973 Views
well I am not a big enough hypocrite to look down on verbosity random thoughts - 29/07/2010 08:30:56 PM 884 Views
I have a new essay I want you to read Larry - 29/07/2010 07:44:40 PM 1000 Views
Re: I have a new essay I want you to read Camilla - 29/07/2010 10:42:05 PM 966 Views
how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM 880 Views
Book 3 is the beginning of the adult ones, imo. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 06:44:07 PM 973 Views
Agreed, although, Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:54:14 PM 944 Views
None of them are "geared towards grown ups" - it's still a YA series. Legolas - 29/07/2010 07:03:24 PM 867 Views
They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM 857 Views
Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. dacole - 29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM 990 Views
it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM 974 Views
I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 929 Views
I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored... random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM 1072 Views
lol. it's hard to fail with such low preliminary standards *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:46:07 PM 474 Views
good points, i bow to your wisdom LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:45:29 PM 860 Views
Oh, agreed. Camilla - 30/07/2010 09:05:17 AM 998 Views
Incidentall Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:39:52 PM 963 Views
Ha! Larry - 28/07/2010 10:41:41 PM 1083 Views
Re: Ha! Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:45:38 PM 966 Views
Ah Larry - 28/07/2010 10:49:22 PM 1031 Views
I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch. Legolas - 28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM 1043 Views
I can see your points there Larry - 28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM 943 Views
I completely agree that there should be no sacred cows, and that applies to Tolkien. Tom - 28/07/2010 11:13:39 PM 955 Views
I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. Ghavrel - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM 988 Views
all art forms have sacred cows random thoughts - 29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM 1060 Views
Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. Gher - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM 949 Views
women deserve black lung too!! LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:35:17 PM 844 Views
nah the smart ones do like my grandmother did random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:15:14 PM 916 Views
All Tolkien-haters are morons. fionwe1987 - 29/07/2010 03:30:27 AM 1209 Views
Disappointing. Werthead - 29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM 1010 Views
Re: Disappointing. Camilla - 29/07/2010 09:19:25 AM 943 Views
Probably in the sense... Jacob - 29/07/2010 02:57:47 PM 902 Views
Perhaps more of 'a complication' to good discussion. Werthead - 29/07/2010 08:28:59 PM 854 Views
agreed. *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:32:36 PM 461 Views
I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien. Tom - 30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM 1254 Views
The Silmarillion was actually one of Tolkien's first works lyringlas - 30/07/2010 06:12:31 PM 1334 Views
No it wasn't. Tom - 30/07/2010 06:37:19 PM 983 Views
Re: Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy dacole - 29/07/2010 08:42:04 PM 1002 Views
I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works. everynametaken - 30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM 1013 Views
This. *NM* Dan - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM 1095 Views
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