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Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. Gher Send a noteboard - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM
If I wrote a story about coal miners, would I also get in trouble if the vast majority of my characters were men, and had no women who worked down in the mine?

4.The story revolved around sword and axe style fighting and guess what. There never were a lot women involved in that sort of fighting or anything other sort of warfare for that matter. Yes the occasional exception that proves the rule through out history war has been the providence of men. To criticize Tolkien for reflecting that is to criticize reality for not meeting your expectations.
"And it breaks my heart to look around, and see the unimpressed; who can't believe the emperor is dressed"~Fastball
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Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy Larry - 28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM 1650 Views
Nonsense, at least in part Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM 1216 Views
I know there is a polite difference of opinion here Larry - 28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM 1026 Views
So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM 1054 Views
i agree, and furthermore... LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:46:07 PM 1128 Views
Re: I know there is a polite difference of opinion here dacole - 29/07/2010 08:44:24 PM 1059 Views
Mno Camilla - 30/07/2010 09:07:18 AM 1137 Views
Have to agree. Seriana Sedai - 28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM 1120 Views
It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. Tim - 29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM 943 Views
*cough* Twilight *cough* Ghavrel - 29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM 979 Views
I was gonna mention that one too. Legolas - 29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM 1054 Views
Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM 874 Views
That's a fair point, I guess... Legolas - 29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM 1085 Views
mmm, except it's relevant to Bella too. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:43:03 PM 957 Views
That's my point, it's pretty much only relevant to Bella - only there is it shown prominently. *NM* Legolas - 29/07/2010 10:59:54 PM 479 Views
Of course, since she's the main character, it matters rather a lot, yes? *NM* Ghavrel - 30/07/2010 09:39:07 AM 469 Views
It's hardly tacit. I'm glad I've never read the things. Ghavrel - 30/07/2010 09:38:33 AM 1071 Views
Fair enough. Legolas - 30/07/2010 10:03:07 AM 1073 Views
Also: the writing is crap. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 01:04:12 PM 1017 Views
but plenty of us hate it after reading *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:24:35 PM 454 Views
How much do you have to read to form an opinion? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM 1032 Views
To the end Camilla - 29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM 904 Views
my reading time is too scarce to think that way random thoughts - 29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM 1108 Views
I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM 1081 Views
and I will random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM 810 Views
that's fair enough then LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:43:57 PM 877 Views
so I hear random thoughts - 29/07/2010 11:13:09 PM 839 Views
Re: To the end dacole - 29/07/2010 08:49:06 PM 950 Views
Re: To the end Camilla - 29/07/2010 10:34:44 PM 865 Views
Re: How much do you have to read to form an opinion? Legolas - 29/07/2010 01:49:21 PM 1054 Views
The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM* Dark Knight - 29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM 540 Views
He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now Lordling - 29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM 894 Views
It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM 855 Views
well you have not failed completely random thoughts - 29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM 851 Views
Re: well you have not failed completely Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM 898 Views
one quick question random thoughts - 29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM 940 Views
Re: one quick question Camilla - 29/07/2010 07:42:27 PM 973 Views
well I am not a big enough hypocrite to look down on verbosity random thoughts - 29/07/2010 08:30:56 PM 884 Views
I have a new essay I want you to read Larry - 29/07/2010 07:44:40 PM 1001 Views
Re: I have a new essay I want you to read Camilla - 29/07/2010 10:42:05 PM 966 Views
how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM 880 Views
Book 3 is the beginning of the adult ones, imo. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 06:44:07 PM 973 Views
Agreed, although, Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:54:14 PM 944 Views
None of them are "geared towards grown ups" - it's still a YA series. Legolas - 29/07/2010 07:03:24 PM 867 Views
They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM 857 Views
Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. dacole - 29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM 990 Views
it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM 974 Views
I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 929 Views
I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored... random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM 1073 Views
lol. it's hard to fail with such low preliminary standards *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:46:07 PM 474 Views
good points, i bow to your wisdom LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:45:29 PM 860 Views
Oh, agreed. Camilla - 30/07/2010 09:05:17 AM 998 Views
Incidentall Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:39:52 PM 963 Views
Ha! Larry - 28/07/2010 10:41:41 PM 1083 Views
Re: Ha! Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:45:38 PM 966 Views
Ah Larry - 28/07/2010 10:49:22 PM 1031 Views
I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch. Legolas - 28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM 1043 Views
I can see your points there Larry - 28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM 943 Views
I completely agree that there should be no sacred cows, and that applies to Tolkien. Tom - 28/07/2010 11:13:39 PM 956 Views
I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. Ghavrel - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM 989 Views
all art forms have sacred cows random thoughts - 29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM 1060 Views
Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. Gher - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM 950 Views
women deserve black lung too!! LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:35:17 PM 845 Views
nah the smart ones do like my grandmother did random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:15:14 PM 916 Views
All Tolkien-haters are morons. fionwe1987 - 29/07/2010 03:30:27 AM 1209 Views
Disappointing. Werthead - 29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM 1011 Views
Re: Disappointing. Camilla - 29/07/2010 09:19:25 AM 943 Views
Probably in the sense... Jacob - 29/07/2010 02:57:47 PM 902 Views
Perhaps more of 'a complication' to good discussion. Werthead - 29/07/2010 08:28:59 PM 854 Views
agreed. *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:32:36 PM 461 Views
I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien. Tom - 30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM 1255 Views
The Silmarillion was actually one of Tolkien's first works lyringlas - 30/07/2010 06:12:31 PM 1335 Views
No it wasn't. Tom - 30/07/2010 06:37:19 PM 983 Views
Re: Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy dacole - 29/07/2010 08:42:04 PM 1003 Views
I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works. everynametaken - 30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM 1014 Views
This. *NM* Dan - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM 1096 Views
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