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I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM
"A quest dynamic with an unworthy and somewhat unwilling hero and an object of mighty plot power" is "poor narrative model?" Tell that to Homer, Vergil, and Dante. I find this sort of attempt to redefine what constitutes a good plot to be distinctly unimpressive and wholly unconvincing. At worst, it smacks of the sort of historical absolutism that makes people denounce the fact that Jefferson owned slaves. Particularly egregious is the attack against Tolkien's "romanticization" of the countryside, as though we should additionally throw Shelley, Keats, and Bryant under the train of the twenty first century.

Look, I agree Tolkien's work isn't perfect. But it's a sore spot of mine when people categorically ignore the context in which something was done. In fairness, this applies to appreciation just as strongly, and someone not recognizing the role of history in Tolkien's women is definitely cause for concern. And frankly I agree with Camilla; the vast majority of criticism seems spurred on by its being in vogue.
"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla

Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel

*MySmiley*

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Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy - 28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM 1713 Views
Nonsense, at least in part - 28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM 1276 Views
I know there is a polite difference of opinion here - 28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM 1093 Views
So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM 1122 Views
i agree, and furthermore... - 29/07/2010 08:46:07 PM 1192 Views
Re: I know there is a polite difference of opinion here - 29/07/2010 08:44:24 PM 1119 Views
Mno - 30/07/2010 09:07:18 AM 1201 Views
Have to agree. - 28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM 1182 Views
It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. - 29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM 1005 Views
*cough* Twilight *cough* - 29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM 1046 Views
I was gonna mention that one too. - 29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM 1123 Views
Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM 941 Views
That's a fair point, I guess... - 29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM 1143 Views
It's hardly tacit. I'm glad I've never read the things. - 30/07/2010 09:38:33 AM 1138 Views
Fair enough. - 30/07/2010 10:03:07 AM 1139 Views
Also: the writing is crap. - 29/07/2010 01:04:12 PM 1083 Views
but plenty of us hate it after reading *NM* - 29/07/2010 08:24:35 PM 467 Views
How much do you have to read to form an opinion? - 29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM 1093 Views
To the end - 29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM 969 Views
my reading time is too scarce to think that way - 29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM 1142 Views
I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading - 29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM 1160 Views
and I will - 29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM 878 Views
that's fair enough then - 29/07/2010 10:43:57 PM 940 Views
so I hear - 29/07/2010 11:13:09 PM 904 Views
Re: To the end - 29/07/2010 08:49:06 PM 1024 Views
Re: To the end - 29/07/2010 10:34:44 PM 952 Views
Re: How much do you have to read to form an opinion? - 29/07/2010 01:49:21 PM 1122 Views
The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM* - 29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM 565 Views
He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now - 29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM 966 Views
It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older - 29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM 912 Views
well you have not failed completely - 29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM 918 Views
Re: well you have not failed completely - 29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM 963 Views
one quick question - 29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM 999 Views
Re: one quick question - 29/07/2010 07:42:27 PM 1032 Views
well I am not a big enough hypocrite to look down on verbosity - 29/07/2010 08:30:56 PM 940 Views
I have a new essay I want you to read - 29/07/2010 07:44:40 PM 1068 Views
Re: I have a new essay I want you to read - 29/07/2010 10:42:05 PM 1032 Views
how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books? - 29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM 938 Views
Book 3 is the beginning of the adult ones, imo. - 29/07/2010 06:44:07 PM 1041 Views
Agreed, although, - 29/07/2010 06:54:14 PM 1006 Views
They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers. - 29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM 922 Views
Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. - 29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM 1046 Views
it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy. - 29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM 1043 Views
I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint. - 29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 993 Views
I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored... - 29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM 1133 Views
lol. it's hard to fail with such low preliminary standards *NM* - 29/07/2010 10:46:07 PM 497 Views
good points, i bow to your wisdom - 29/07/2010 10:45:29 PM 922 Views
Oh, agreed. - 30/07/2010 09:05:17 AM 1068 Views
Incidentall - 28/07/2010 10:39:52 PM 1028 Views
Ha! - 28/07/2010 10:41:41 PM 1148 Views
Re: Ha! - 28/07/2010 10:45:38 PM 1038 Views
Ah - 28/07/2010 10:49:22 PM 1090 Views
I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch. - 28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM 1110 Views
I can see your points there - 28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM 1009 Views
I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM 1062 Views
all art forms have sacred cows - 29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM 1119 Views
Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM 1012 Views
women deserve black lung too!! - 29/07/2010 08:35:17 PM 914 Views
nah the smart ones do like my grandmother did - 29/07/2010 09:15:14 PM 981 Views
All Tolkien-haters are morons. - 29/07/2010 03:30:27 AM 1275 Views
Disappointing. - 29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM 1072 Views
Re: Disappointing. - 29/07/2010 09:19:25 AM 999 Views
Probably in the sense... - 29/07/2010 02:57:47 PM 952 Views
Perhaps more of 'a complication' to good discussion. - 29/07/2010 08:28:59 PM 913 Views
agreed. *NM* - 29/07/2010 08:32:36 PM 483 Views
I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien. - 30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM 1319 Views
The Silmarillion was actually one of Tolkien's first works - 30/07/2010 06:12:31 PM 1401 Views
No it wasn't. - 30/07/2010 06:37:19 PM 1051 Views
Re: Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy - 29/07/2010 08:42:04 PM 1069 Views
I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works. - 30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM 1081 Views
This. *NM* - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM 1162 Views

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