wonder if Heretics of Dune was indeed conceived as the opener of a trilogy, as it had the feel of setting up situations and the chief participants more than it did as something that could be read semi-independently of the other novels.
It was the opener to a trilogy from the get go.
I know, I was just wondering if it would have been a single remaining book or two. Of course, I stated that before I finished Chapterhouse last night.
The "original" Dune was a duology, before it was decided to make Dune Messiah a book in itself and not last part of Dune.
Herbert much later decided to return to the Dune world with God-Emperor, which was a stand-alone in his mind (it became a bridge book onkly after the fact).
And before it became the linchpin of the series, as I'm starting to view it.
He decided later to tell the story of the result to Leto's plans, and that he did conceive of as a trilogy from the start, with the two first volumes published and the third one (which remains open ended in the Dune style, but less so than previous ones) outlined.
I hope that outline will be published one day, maybe within 10 years, when it'll be the centennial of Frank Herbert's birth?
If you don't have the patience to suffer through the awfully written two-volumes Dune 7 by KJA-BH to dig up in the dross the concepts and ideas Herbert intended to explore through the ending (they are quite apparent still, especially after having read the other books so recently, though they aren't developped with anything near the intelligence of Frank), just ask and I'll tell you about what I remember. You read so fast that I almost recommend you pick the books, though. I found the ideas interesting enough, even if as novels this is real garbage.
Well, having read 3 of the prequel novels by them while metaphorically pinching my nose, I have no desire to torture myself any further. Frank Herbert wasn't an elegant writer and sometimes a few of his ideas and takes on human life irritate, but he at his worst was worlds better than what I endured in reading two of the House novels and the first Jihad book.
I just don't see where there's enough foreshadowing in the six original books for there to be two thinking machines being a main threat. Marty and Daniel seemed to be something else. The bit about Duncan Idaho's "ultimate" role, however, I thought was foreshadowed in Chapterhouse and I would have loved to have seen what Frank Herbert would have done with it.
Whatever you do, don't read the prequels, and definitely don't read them first. KJA-BH liberally stole from the outline of Dune 7 to "set things up", and setting things up in their mind was spoiling everything by extending every good idea into elaborate and boring storylines set thousands of years before., as they believed Frank's outline for Dune 7 was "too complex" and required much backstory (which was plainly wrong: Frank would have managed to include everyhting and make everything clear within a 300 or 400 pages book, but he just didn't spoon feed his readers as if they were dumb the way KJA does) What they achieved is that every idea in Dune 7 feels quite stale and predictable once you get there (and I don't mean it spoil the plot, I mean the way they bring them up through the prequels in a very b;ah and pedestrian way sort of ruin the ideas themselves...)
That is true, Frank Herbert certainly didn't think his readers were "dumb" and had to have everything explained to them. His approach made me slow down a bit, since there was much to consider before I could weigh in on some of his idea presentations, but when I read the prequels, they felt like a bad Babelfish translation more than anything coherent and interesting in their own right.
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie
Je suis méchant.
Je suis méchant.
Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within)
16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM
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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM
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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM
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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM
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Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there.
17/04/2010 06:54:14 PM
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Re: Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there.
17/04/2010 10:44:18 PM
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I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological"
18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM
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Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological"
18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM
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Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white?
18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM
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Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white?
19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM
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That was most of my issue.
21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM
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Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme
21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM
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Thank you for saying concisely the point I have been trying to make. *NM*
21/04/2010 06:34:12 PM
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A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM
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Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM
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Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
22/04/2010 04:08:28 PM
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Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects
22/04/2010 09:28:05 PM
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Re: Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects
23/04/2010 05:22:22 PM
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Re: Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme
29/04/2010 11:36:45 PM
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Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic.
19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM
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Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic.
20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM
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Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all.
21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM
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Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all.
21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM
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People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book
16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM
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Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM*
16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM
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I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune
16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM
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There are several points to the book/series
17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM
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Everyone get something different from a book
19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM
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I believe those themes become more pronounced later in the series
20/04/2010 10:09:36 PM
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I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts
17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM
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Well, I enjoyed more of the characters this time around, if that helps
18/04/2010 12:14:43 AM
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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM
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I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM
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Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM
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Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM
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Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM
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I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM*
22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM
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Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM
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Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM
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I didn't see that in Alia
21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM
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There were a few scenes displaying Alia's abilities/mindset. (spoilers)
22/04/2010 03:54:32 PM
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OK, that makes a bit more sense, as I wasn't for sure what you were arguing at first
22/04/2010 09:14:46 PM
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One of my favorite series!
21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM
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I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it
21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM
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Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it
22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM
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Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM
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Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM
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I read the wiki synopses of those two books
29/04/2010 09:44:07 PM
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