On identity and communication: do we love only ourselves?
Tom Send a noteboard - 25/04/2010 03:35:34 PM
To me, one of the most interesting questions that Solaris posed was to what extent everything we think we know is filtered through our own prism of how we perceive reality. It isn't a particularly new or revolutionary concept, but what Lem did was to show extremely well how we tend to do that. It's one thing to recognize it in the abstract, it's another thing to see its direct consequences.
This is one of those times when I think the "alienating" effect of a science fiction setting helps make the point of the story. Ultimately, the book seems to be saying we are born, live and die alone, and we think we're communicating with other people but the communication is always flawed because we impose our own ideas on everything.
Harey (I'm going to use the Polish spelling, as I understand it, for names) killed herself and is gone. The Harey that shows up on the station is the Harey of his memories. This Harey is flawed because she is (by her own admission, even) not acting as she really did, but has Kris has selectively remembered. He chose to remember certain things about her and ignore others. He did so because he wanted to make her adhere more to certain ideas he had about who she should be - who she should be as a woman, as a lover, as a friend, etc. He may have subconsciously ignored things about her in order to make the "emotional connection" possible. The real Harey likely did the same thing, but the faux Harey on the station may not be doing that.
We don't even know what that Harey is. Is she a result of natural phenomena on Solaris? Is Solaris alive and interacting by pretending to be her? We don't know. Kris is forced to confront the idea that he has projected upon Harey what he wanted to. Does this mean he loved the idea of Harey that he built up in his mind and not the "real" Harey back on Earth? The realization seems to break the dangerous nostalgia that he fell into by allowing the proximity of the faux Harey.
The other question is: is the faux Harey real? Is she self-conscious? We don't know. We only know what we hear her say, but we're not sure if her emotions, thoughts, ideas, words, etc. are the result of a sentient Solaris, or the result of an independent, sentient being that was generated, or the result of Kris's own thoughts somehow taking form.
Either way, it is clear that all of the scientists are dealing with very difficult memories. It could simply be that, by virtue of suppressing the painful memories in order to be able to live and experience joy, those memories have become the strongest "signal" for Solaris to pick up (if that's what it's doing - either as a sentient entity or as a chemical or physical reaction).
Thoughts?
This is one of those times when I think the "alienating" effect of a science fiction setting helps make the point of the story. Ultimately, the book seems to be saying we are born, live and die alone, and we think we're communicating with other people but the communication is always flawed because we impose our own ideas on everything.
Harey (I'm going to use the Polish spelling, as I understand it, for names) killed herself and is gone. The Harey that shows up on the station is the Harey of his memories. This Harey is flawed because she is (by her own admission, even) not acting as she really did, but has Kris has selectively remembered. He chose to remember certain things about her and ignore others. He did so because he wanted to make her adhere more to certain ideas he had about who she should be - who she should be as a woman, as a lover, as a friend, etc. He may have subconsciously ignored things about her in order to make the "emotional connection" possible. The real Harey likely did the same thing, but the faux Harey on the station may not be doing that.
We don't even know what that Harey is. Is she a result of natural phenomena on Solaris? Is Solaris alive and interacting by pretending to be her? We don't know. Kris is forced to confront the idea that he has projected upon Harey what he wanted to. Does this mean he loved the idea of Harey that he built up in his mind and not the "real" Harey back on Earth? The realization seems to break the dangerous nostalgia that he fell into by allowing the proximity of the faux Harey.
The other question is: is the faux Harey real? Is she self-conscious? We don't know. We only know what we hear her say, but we're not sure if her emotions, thoughts, ideas, words, etc. are the result of a sentient Solaris, or the result of an independent, sentient being that was generated, or the result of Kris's own thoughts somehow taking form.
Either way, it is clear that all of the scientists are dealing with very difficult memories. It could simply be that, by virtue of suppressing the painful memories in order to be able to live and experience joy, those memories have become the strongest "signal" for Solaris to pick up (if that's what it's doing - either as a sentient entity or as a chemical or physical reaction).
Thoughts?
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
Sci-Fi Book Club: SOLARIS by Stanislaw Lem
19/04/2010 05:50:45 PM
- 1893 Views
Roll-Call: Have you read it? Are you reading it? Like it: Yes/NO? *NM*
19/04/2010 05:52:00 PM
- 661 Views
I just finished it.
19/04/2010 06:54:49 PM
- 1142 Views
Yes, I read it. Must be something like... eh. it was before the clooney horror movie came out? *NM*
19/04/2010 07:23:15 PM
- 675 Views
I'm currently reading it
20/04/2010 10:00:05 AM
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I am with you on that. It may not be rational or my reasons have to do with vanity
20/04/2010 11:18:53 PM
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Re: When you look through Lem's page on Solaris covers, that one is the least interesting.
24/04/2010 10:01:50 AM
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Translation:
19/04/2010 05:54:57 PM
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English translation by Joanna Kilmartin and Steve Cox (1970).
19/04/2010 06:56:54 PM
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Translation of a translation, actually. *NM*
19/04/2010 07:22:18 PM
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Yes, I did read Jake's intro piece there. *NM*
19/04/2010 07:23:44 PM
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Read a swedish translation back then.
19/04/2010 07:28:14 PM
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Yes, the version I read was translated from polish. All the names were intact from the original *NM*
20/04/2010 12:17:42 AM
- 601 Views
1970 translation from French to English by Joanna Kilmartin and Steve Cox
20/04/2010 02:20:42 AM
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Re: Does anyone know why the Polish publishers haven't commissioned another translation?
24/04/2010 10:04:38 AM
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So. Uh. The chick's name was Rheya in the book I read. Not in other translations?
19/04/2010 07:42:16 PM
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Her name in the original is Harey, it got changed to Rheya somewhere along the way of the
19/04/2010 07:49:33 PM
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I haven't looked into the reasons yet, outside of what would seem obvious,
19/04/2010 09:26:11 PM
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Re: I think the translators just thought Harey wasn't immediately accessible as a feminine name.
24/04/2010 09:59:17 AM
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Literature vs. Genre Fiction
21/04/2010 02:33:21 PM
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Re:
21/04/2010 09:09:02 PM
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How do you know Solaris was an advanced intelligence?
22/04/2010 01:20:35 AM
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It's definitely literature
22/04/2010 01:19:34 AM
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You might be winning me over to your thoughts here.
26/04/2010 09:42:33 PM
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In all fairness to my opponents, Solaris is one of my strongest cases.
26/04/2010 10:16:20 PM
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As long as you realize...
26/04/2010 10:26:00 PM
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This is why I sort of float around on this issue.
27/04/2010 05:49:39 PM
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Re: This is why I sort of float around on this issue.
13/05/2010 10:15:38 AM
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What didn't you enjoy?
21/04/2010 09:47:06 PM
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I didn't like the excessive description of the types of clouds on Solaris.
22/04/2010 01:17:22 AM
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Re: I didn't like the excessive description of the types of clouds on Solaris.
23/04/2010 03:33:14 AM
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Re: I found it made this stark contrast with his descriptions of his own, more human environment.
24/04/2010 09:56:40 AM
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So, is there really anything to discuss about the story itself?
22/04/2010 08:55:03 AM
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Apparently not.
22/04/2010 01:38:24 PM
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Point of fact,
23/04/2010 02:53:47 PM
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Perhaps it's time for a self-reevaluation then
24/04/2010 10:45:44 AM
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They never claimed to have a monopoly on guiding the discussions. I am just happy they are starting
25/04/2010 05:51:01 PM
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Thank you for telling me how I should prioritize my life, Larry.
26/04/2010 04:54:01 PM
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At least I am not as quick to repeat the same excuses
26/04/2010 05:13:08 PM
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I was originally gonna reply to your previous post, then decided not to. Guess I will now.
26/04/2010 05:42:15 PM
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Well, when my sleeping is screwed up, interpretations are going to be wonky, it seems
27/04/2010 06:21:57 PM
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One point...
26/04/2010 07:34:02 PM
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Posting while irritated and about to crash does little good, it seems
27/04/2010 06:20:19 PM
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The delay to the review is my fault. I've got a mostly finished one. I'm just not happy with it.
27/04/2010 07:19:35 PM
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It wasn't the review I was irritated about, but thanks for doing it
27/04/2010 07:39:08 PM
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I'm a bit ambivalent on the merits of this approach of yours.
26/04/2010 05:32:19 PM
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I am mostly just trying the approach out as something a little bit different.
26/04/2010 07:23:12 PM
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Re: So what do you think about any of those things?
23/04/2010 08:30:55 PM
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I've posted my thoughts on most of those issues in various places in this discussion.
24/04/2010 05:02:44 AM
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Re: I think I'd just like for you to be more proactive and Start A Thread.
24/04/2010 09:50:26 AM
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A question about Lem.
23/04/2010 03:49:57 AM
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My main thoughts on Solaris by Stanislaw Lem
23/04/2010 02:50:10 AM
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I finally watched Avatar for the first time tonight.
25/04/2010 04:27:34 AM
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Re: I finally watched Avatar for the first time tonight.
25/04/2010 01:52:19 PM
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It had more to do with recognizing mankind's tendency to imposes their ideas on other cultures.
25/04/2010 05:35:25 PM
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On identity and communication: do we love only ourselves?
25/04/2010 03:35:34 PM
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I did spend a lot of the book speculating on what the planet was trying to do with those supressed
25/04/2010 05:05:38 PM
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The argument: (From the text and some thoughts)
27/04/2010 06:22:34 PM
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It is interesting you should say that.
12/05/2010 09:56:26 PM
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That is the second time this week that I have heard something about Derrida. Now I am going to have
13/05/2010 12:02:56 AM
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Is Solaris alive? Is Solaris sentient?
25/04/2010 03:40:57 PM
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What do you think the biggest message of the book is?
25/04/2010 03:47:03 PM
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Re: Does he let go of her? How independant is she of him?
25/04/2010 04:07:33 PM
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Did anyone else do any wondering what their own visitors would take the form of if they were there?
26/04/2010 11:31:27 PM
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Re: You know, the more I think about it, the more surprised I am everyone only seemed to have one.
10/05/2010 10:08:23 PM
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