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Perhaps it's time for a self-reevaluation then Larry Send a noteboard - 24/04/2010 10:45:44 AM
I'm not here to hold anyone's hand. I am tossing up some high-level questions that are meant to get people started. This is a discussion not a 'Jacob is the only one who can introduce a sub-thread' event.

And yes, I am busy. Brand new job, wife out of town so taking care of my kids by myself, brother had major surgery and was there for him. I'm far too busy to hold hands right now. Sorry if that is ruining the experience for anyone.


While I am sorry to hear about your brother and I understand just how taxing new jobs/responsibilities can be, I cannot help but think there's another dimension to this that just isn't being stated directly right now.

To have a meaningful and fruitful discussion of a book, there has to be greater commitment than what has been shown lately. That's not an accusation, but rather a observation grounded in fact, it seems. You and Rebekah apparently, due to your personal situations, cannot make the needed commitments right now.

Sure, there's that sense of self-doubt and guilt. I should know, since I was in that exact same situation from late 2003-late 2005 and again from late 2006 to recently. You might feel that you're being pressured to have something up for people to react to and discuss and comments like the ones that Tom and I made probably aren't the most pleasant to read, since they are bald statements about how there really isn't much in the way of discussion going on beyond the most superficial of levels.

No doubt about it, you are justified to feel frustrated and perhaps wish that others would take over and guide the thing. The problem with that is that there is no perceived "leader" here; people are making a few back-and-forths, but it's more like a bunch of external monologues than anything resembling an actual discourse. Sometimes, a "leader," or at least someone who engages all of those subthreads and questions are needed. Doesn't have to be someone "official" (really, that's a ridiculous title for any book discussion on a forum). Tom and Greg certainly have done very well in engaging others with their first two Russian Book Club discussions and the level of activity and interaction is higher because they are so pro-active and get others curious about the books.

And of course, this doesn't have to be limited to "book club" posts. I'm very pleasantly surprised at the level of discussion in response to my comments in the Dune Chronicles thread. There isn't simple agreement or disagreement going on there; people are sharing and it didn't take some pre-planned announcement. Sometimes, all it takes is a few people being curious and the threadstarter being active enough to engage in a true discussion.

If you're as burdened as you say, then back off. There's no wotmania-style collecting tag for these discussions (at least not right now). Either don't do them for a while, or just ask those who are active around here to choose a book, with the understanding that this person (or better yet, a group of 2-3 people) would try to respond to others' comments. Decentralization isn't a bad thing. In fact, I would almost be willing to bet you money that if a small group were to start a Harry Dresden (for example) re-reading/discussion group, that there would be some interest and activity without any Admin interventions. Sure, that would mean others would have to "stop holding hands" (really, I don't think you meant that to be as insulting as it came out, but it was rather bad the first few times I read this), but sometimes, all it takes is just being active while avoiding a centralization of discussion.

As for Solaris, I'll finish it after I write my commentaries on God Emperor of Dune and The Shadow Rising later today. Then I might just go to town on it, as the first half was so turgid as to make me wonder if the paper was reverting back into tree fiber.
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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Sci-Fi Book Club: SOLARIS by Stanislaw Lem - 19/04/2010 05:50:45 PM 1894 Views
Roll-Call: Have you read it? Are you reading it? Like it: Yes/NO? *NM* - 19/04/2010 05:52:00 PM 661 Views
I read it back in January. - 19/04/2010 06:23:29 PM 1192 Views
I read it years ago, and liked it. *NM* - 19/04/2010 06:41:36 PM 628 Views
I just finished it. - 19/04/2010 06:54:49 PM 1142 Views
Well, to be fair, - 20/04/2010 08:12:17 PM 1087 Views
Heh. - 21/04/2010 08:31:51 AM 1312 Views
Re: Well, to be fair, - 12/05/2010 09:06:06 PM 1054 Views
That was how I felt too. - 20/04/2010 11:39:15 PM 911 Views
I read it 3 years ago, and liked it. - 19/04/2010 06:58:37 PM 1394 Views
I read it, and liked it. - 19/04/2010 07:33:16 PM 1177 Views
I plan to - 19/04/2010 07:41:21 PM 1284 Views
I might re-read it in a few days - 19/04/2010 09:11:35 PM 1100 Views
I'm currently reading it - 20/04/2010 10:00:05 AM 1356 Views
That has always bothered me too. - 20/04/2010 08:20:56 PM 982 Views
Indeed - 11/05/2010 03:02:26 PM 1024 Views
It was a while since I've read it - 22/04/2010 05:33:44 AM 994 Views
I have started reading it - 11/05/2010 11:10:53 AM 946 Views
Translation: - 19/04/2010 05:54:57 PM 1241 Views
I read it in Russian, which was very close to the original. - 19/04/2010 06:25:00 PM 1222 Views
I'm not sure now, I think I read it in Dutch. - 19/04/2010 06:43:30 PM 1145 Views
English translation by Joanna Kilmartin and Steve Cox (1970). - 19/04/2010 06:56:54 PM 1110 Views
Translation of a translation, actually. *NM* - 19/04/2010 07:22:18 PM 599 Views
Yes, I did read Jake's intro piece there. *NM* - 19/04/2010 07:23:44 PM 603 Views
I figured you were not accurate enough. - 19/04/2010 07:26:54 PM 1094 Views
Pffft. Accuracy is for nerds. - 19/04/2010 07:31:52 PM 1178 Views
That was the one I read. - 20/04/2010 01:43:01 AM 1308 Views
I read it in Czech - 19/04/2010 07:40:05 PM 1357 Views
I also read a Swedish translation. - 19/04/2010 07:41:31 PM 1465 Views
1970 translation from French to English by Joanna Kilmartin and Steve Cox - 20/04/2010 02:20:42 AM 1209 Views
I have a different opinion on this. - 20/04/2010 08:17:06 PM 1111 Views
I've read it in Polish - 22/04/2010 05:32:33 AM 942 Views
Re: So it's flat and boring? - 23/04/2010 09:50:38 PM 1071 Views
Re: Does anyone know why the Polish publishers haven't commissioned another translation? - 24/04/2010 10:04:38 AM 1066 Views
Rights issues, I beieve - 24/04/2010 10:48:53 AM 1112 Views
So 'we' have read the novel in 6 different languages. - 27/04/2010 09:20:02 PM 953 Views
I read the English from French translation - 12/05/2010 09:10:42 PM 926 Views
This was my general experience as well. - 17/05/2010 06:53:58 PM 977 Views
I probably got more out of it than I first thought. - 20/04/2010 11:37:52 PM 915 Views
Re: I do that too! - 23/04/2010 09:51:39 PM 946 Views
It is certainly a book that makes you think... - 26/04/2010 09:46:31 PM 969 Views
Literature vs. Genre Fiction - 21/04/2010 02:33:21 PM 1146 Views
Re: Literature vs. Genre Fiction - 21/04/2010 08:44:24 PM 1104 Views
Re: Literature vs. Genre Fiction - 12/05/2010 09:19:31 PM 976 Views
Re: - 21/04/2010 09:09:02 PM 1039 Views
How do you know Solaris was an advanced intelligence? - 22/04/2010 01:20:35 AM 972 Views
Fair enough. - 22/04/2010 09:04:58 PM 1032 Views
But I think that is Lem's point. - 23/04/2010 03:20:18 AM 1053 Views
Good point Tom. - 23/04/2010 03:14:23 AM 944 Views
It's definitely literature - 22/04/2010 01:19:34 AM 906 Views
You might be winning me over to your thoughts here. - 26/04/2010 09:42:33 PM 897 Views
As long as you realize... - 26/04/2010 10:26:00 PM 936 Views
This is why I sort of float around on this issue. - 27/04/2010 05:49:39 PM 983 Views
Re: This is why I sort of float around on this issue. - 13/05/2010 10:15:38 AM 1010 Views
Very well put. - 17/05/2010 06:51:27 PM 925 Views
Re: Very well put. - 17/05/2010 06:53:13 PM 1024 Views
This book is definitely literature. - 23/04/2010 02:59:48 AM 1049 Views
Re: This discussion gives me hives. *NM* - 23/04/2010 09:52:09 PM 553 Views
Understandable. - 26/04/2010 07:31:08 PM 913 Views
Hmmm - 12/05/2010 09:18:42 PM 1011 Views
What didn't you enjoy? - 21/04/2010 09:47:06 PM 912 Views
I didn't like the excessive description of the types of clouds on Solaris. - 22/04/2010 01:17:22 AM 884 Views
This was what I disliked too - 22/04/2010 05:46:05 AM 1100 Views
Re: I didn't like the excessive description of the types of clouds on Solaris. - 23/04/2010 03:33:14 AM 964 Views
Re: I found it made this stark contrast with his descriptions of his own, more human environment. - 24/04/2010 09:56:40 AM 1165 Views
That is an interesting take. - 27/04/2010 05:53:23 PM 1014 Views
I didn't really find anything difficult about it. - 23/04/2010 03:38:48 AM 990 Views
The only thing that bothered me... - 03/05/2010 07:06:42 PM 1135 Views
So, is there really anything to discuss about the story itself? - 22/04/2010 08:55:03 AM 1089 Views
Apparently not. - 22/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 1140 Views
True - 22/04/2010 09:29:53 PM 962 Views
Point of fact, - 23/04/2010 02:53:47 PM 1011 Views
Perhaps it's time for a self-reevaluation then - 24/04/2010 10:45:44 AM 1338 Views
Thank you for telling me how I should prioritize my life, Larry. - 26/04/2010 04:54:01 PM 1143 Views
At least I am not as quick to repeat the same excuses - 26/04/2010 05:13:08 PM 1290 Views
I was originally gonna reply to your previous post, then decided not to. Guess I will now. - 26/04/2010 05:42:15 PM 1134 Views
Thank you. - 26/04/2010 07:41:17 PM 1091 Views
One point... - 26/04/2010 07:34:02 PM 982 Views
Posting while irritated and about to crash does little good, it seems - 27/04/2010 06:20:19 PM 1059 Views
The delay to the review is my fault. I've got a mostly finished one. I'm just not happy with it. - 27/04/2010 07:19:35 PM 1031 Views
It wasn't the review I was irritated about, but thanks for doing it - 27/04/2010 07:39:08 PM 930 Views
Ah. OK. - 27/04/2010 07:47:09 PM 1088 Views
Thanks - 27/04/2010 07:58:54 PM 982 Views
I'm a bit ambivalent on the merits of this approach of yours. - 26/04/2010 05:32:19 PM 924 Views
You highlight my only frustration with the thread. - 26/04/2010 05:48:01 PM 1258 Views
Re: So what do you think about any of those things? - 23/04/2010 08:30:55 PM 951 Views
A question about Lem. - 23/04/2010 03:49:57 AM 1010 Views
I've only read one other book by him, The Cyberiad - 23/04/2010 04:03:19 AM 1086 Views
Re: A question about Lem. - 23/04/2010 07:26:18 PM 1067 Views
Thanks. - 24/04/2010 06:42:05 AM 1097 Views
Yes - 24/04/2010 02:43:17 PM 1050 Views
My main thoughts on Solaris by Stanislaw Lem - 23/04/2010 02:50:10 AM 1319 Views
Re: About that "worst" thoughts issue. - 23/04/2010 09:49:04 PM 1213 Views
Re: About that "worst" thoughts issue. - 12/05/2010 09:35:48 PM 1105 Views
I came away with the same message you did on the first point. - 25/04/2010 04:46:09 PM 950 Views
Re: My main thoughts on Solaris by Stanislaw Lem - 12/05/2010 09:31:32 PM 1108 Views
Re: So I have no team spirit and should be lynched. - 23/04/2010 09:41:48 PM 942 Views
I finally watched Avatar for the first time tonight. - 25/04/2010 04:27:34 AM 940 Views
Solaris was, I hope, better than Avatar. - 25/04/2010 04:54:12 AM 901 Views
Misplaced answer . *NM* - 25/04/2010 04:40:27 PM 474 Views
On identity and communication: do we love only ourselves? - 25/04/2010 03:35:34 PM 989 Views
The argument: (From the text and some thoughts) - 27/04/2010 06:22:34 PM 923 Views
Yes - 12/05/2010 10:10:30 PM 1080 Views
That is a great idea... - 17/05/2010 06:58:48 PM 1026 Views
Re: That is a great idea... - 17/05/2010 07:02:44 PM 1026 Views
That settles it. I am going to have to reread it. - 13/05/2010 12:23:14 AM 965 Views
It is interesting you should say that. - 12/05/2010 09:56:26 PM 1211 Views
That is the second time this week that I have heard something about Derrida. Now I am going to have - 13/05/2010 12:02:56 AM 1067 Views
Derrida is great. - 13/05/2010 10:06:49 AM 1080 Views
Is Solaris alive? Is Solaris sentient? - 25/04/2010 03:40:57 PM 962 Views
I can't decide. - 25/04/2010 03:54:39 PM 1109 Views
An interesting point to consider... - 25/04/2010 10:41:17 PM 1109 Views
Re: I can't decide. - 12/05/2010 10:05:21 PM 915 Views
Re: Is Solaris alive? Is Solaris sentient? - 25/04/2010 10:31:58 PM 1084 Views
Ooohhhh. I like that theory. - 25/04/2010 11:32:15 PM 1080 Views
Does it make a difference? - 26/04/2010 07:29:44 PM 927 Views
Re: Is Solaris alive? Is Solaris sentient? - 12/05/2010 09:57:05 PM 1057 Views
What do you think the biggest message of the book is? - 25/04/2010 03:47:03 PM 1024 Views
Re: Does he let go of her? How independant is she of him? - 25/04/2010 04:07:33 PM 1066 Views
That's an interesting observation. - 26/04/2010 10:23:28 PM 954 Views
Re: I was telling Tashmere... - 11/05/2010 11:05:09 AM 1086 Views
Re: What do you think the biggest message of the book is? - 25/04/2010 10:16:16 PM 1004 Views
Communication with the entirely other - 12/05/2010 10:01:37 PM 1038 Views
Did anyone else do any wondering what their own visitors would take the form of if they were there? - 26/04/2010 11:31:27 PM 947 Views
Actually, no. It was obvious to me. *NM* - 26/04/2010 11:41:22 PM 457 Views
In a way yes. - 27/04/2010 06:33:43 PM 1031 Views
My father, perhaps. - 27/04/2010 08:55:18 PM 939 Views
Ha. - 27/04/2010 09:16:56 PM 961 Views

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