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Re: About that "worst" thoughts issue. Danae al'Thor Send a noteboard - 23/04/2010 09:49:04 PM



I was somewhat disappointed by some descriptions I found on the Internet as to the nature of the visitors. The overwhelming view that people seemed to have was that Solaris was intentionally dredging up the worst repressed memories the researchers had. In truth Lem never really reveals to us just what Solaris is doing but I think that underscores his point about communication with alien life forms (that it wouldn’t be comprehensible). Even though the experiences seemed traumatic for the crew members it cannot be said that that was the ocean’s intentions. Snow even suggests at the end of the book that the visitors might have been “presents” of a sort.

When Snow/Snaut is talking to Kelvin about Rheya, he calls Kelvin an innocent. Certainly it's strange that Kelvin has no rpoblem with letting Rheya walk around in front of the others - he keeps an eye on her, and them around her, but he isn't afraid to let them see her, once he gets used to her. But when we see the other two around their visitors, they're always in some sort of unpleasant contact with them. Snow kills his, and Sartorius actively struggles physically with his the first time we see him. It's one of the creepiest sections of the novel, for me, that first meeting, with someone banging on the door and everyone pretending she's not there.

Returning to the two scientific reviews in the book I want to discuss a second although lesser theme in the book. Lem is not only describing the frustrations he predicts will come with contact with alien life but he is also making fun to some extent of academia and in particular scientific experimentation and its limits. After all, the first passage describes thousands of pages and numerous volumes of theories about whether Solaris is alive or not and what is the end result of all that? They don’t know! Likewise in the second review of literature the history of Solaristics has managed to document and categorize the complex formations Solaris makes but yet in the end all that categorization really says nothing.

Let’s think about the state of research currently and ask ourselves a question. What do we really know about anything? For example, in the topic of neuroscience we map out different brain activities, neural patterns associated with different modes of thinking, different types of behavior, correlations between patterning and different chemical states, and so on. But in the end of billions of dollars and countless hours of research what do we really know? Have we really explained anything or have we just made more and more categorizations and descriptions of phenomena that we will never really understand?

In many ways our own subjective intelligence and how it works is as alien to us as Solaris is to Kelvin and company. We know it is there and that it displays “forms” if you will but we really know very little about it or what it is. And though it is highly unlikely that we will ever really know what our consciousness “is” we will continue to want to research and categorize it no matter what traumatic or disturbing things are dredged up in response to our probing. I find it telling that at the end of the book after everything that has happened with the visitors Snow is ready to continue probing Solaris with more experiments!


I had not thought of this frm this angle. I found it telling, too, about different things re: Snow - Snow was a wonderful character, and I really want to know more about him.

But yes, a century of explorations into one big ocean have told us about as much as centuries of dissection of our brains have about our minds and souls.

I'd hope, though, that we have more to look forward to that just the bits of us we don't like.
http://coolingpearls.wordpress.com/
http://uncategoricallyroh.wordpress.com/
http://whaq.blogspot.com/
~Roh
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Sci-Fi Book Club: SOLARIS by Stanislaw Lem - 19/04/2010 05:50:45 PM 1894 Views
Roll-Call: Have you read it? Are you reading it? Like it: Yes/NO? *NM* - 19/04/2010 05:52:00 PM 661 Views
I read it back in January. - 19/04/2010 06:23:29 PM 1192 Views
I read it years ago, and liked it. *NM* - 19/04/2010 06:41:36 PM 628 Views
I just finished it. - 19/04/2010 06:54:49 PM 1142 Views
Well, to be fair, - 20/04/2010 08:12:17 PM 1087 Views
Heh. - 21/04/2010 08:31:51 AM 1312 Views
Re: Well, to be fair, - 12/05/2010 09:06:06 PM 1054 Views
That was how I felt too. - 20/04/2010 11:39:15 PM 911 Views
I read it 3 years ago, and liked it. - 19/04/2010 06:58:37 PM 1394 Views
I read it, and liked it. - 19/04/2010 07:33:16 PM 1177 Views
I plan to - 19/04/2010 07:41:21 PM 1284 Views
I might re-read it in a few days - 19/04/2010 09:11:35 PM 1100 Views
I'm currently reading it - 20/04/2010 10:00:05 AM 1356 Views
That has always bothered me too. - 20/04/2010 08:20:56 PM 982 Views
Indeed - 11/05/2010 03:02:26 PM 1024 Views
It was a while since I've read it - 22/04/2010 05:33:44 AM 994 Views
I have started reading it - 11/05/2010 11:10:53 AM 946 Views
Translation: - 19/04/2010 05:54:57 PM 1241 Views
I read it in Russian, which was very close to the original. - 19/04/2010 06:25:00 PM 1222 Views
I'm not sure now, I think I read it in Dutch. - 19/04/2010 06:43:30 PM 1145 Views
English translation by Joanna Kilmartin and Steve Cox (1970). - 19/04/2010 06:56:54 PM 1110 Views
Translation of a translation, actually. *NM* - 19/04/2010 07:22:18 PM 599 Views
Yes, I did read Jake's intro piece there. *NM* - 19/04/2010 07:23:44 PM 603 Views
I figured you were not accurate enough. - 19/04/2010 07:26:54 PM 1094 Views
Pffft. Accuracy is for nerds. - 19/04/2010 07:31:52 PM 1178 Views
That was the one I read. - 20/04/2010 01:43:01 AM 1307 Views
I read it in Czech - 19/04/2010 07:40:05 PM 1357 Views
I also read a Swedish translation. - 19/04/2010 07:41:31 PM 1465 Views
1970 translation from French to English by Joanna Kilmartin and Steve Cox - 20/04/2010 02:20:42 AM 1208 Views
I have a different opinion on this. - 20/04/2010 08:17:06 PM 1111 Views
I've read it in Polish - 22/04/2010 05:32:33 AM 942 Views
Re: So it's flat and boring? - 23/04/2010 09:50:38 PM 1071 Views
Re: Does anyone know why the Polish publishers haven't commissioned another translation? - 24/04/2010 10:04:38 AM 1066 Views
Rights issues, I beieve - 24/04/2010 10:48:53 AM 1112 Views
So 'we' have read the novel in 6 different languages. - 27/04/2010 09:20:02 PM 953 Views
I read the English from French translation - 12/05/2010 09:10:42 PM 926 Views
This was my general experience as well. - 17/05/2010 06:53:58 PM 977 Views
I probably got more out of it than I first thought. - 20/04/2010 11:37:52 PM 915 Views
Re: I do that too! - 23/04/2010 09:51:39 PM 946 Views
It is certainly a book that makes you think... - 26/04/2010 09:46:31 PM 969 Views
Literature vs. Genre Fiction - 21/04/2010 02:33:21 PM 1146 Views
Re: Literature vs. Genre Fiction - 21/04/2010 08:44:24 PM 1104 Views
Re: Literature vs. Genre Fiction - 12/05/2010 09:19:31 PM 976 Views
Re: - 21/04/2010 09:09:02 PM 1039 Views
How do you know Solaris was an advanced intelligence? - 22/04/2010 01:20:35 AM 972 Views
Fair enough. - 22/04/2010 09:04:58 PM 1032 Views
But I think that is Lem's point. - 23/04/2010 03:20:18 AM 1052 Views
Good point Tom. - 23/04/2010 03:14:23 AM 943 Views
It's definitely literature - 22/04/2010 01:19:34 AM 906 Views
You might be winning me over to your thoughts here. - 26/04/2010 09:42:33 PM 897 Views
As long as you realize... - 26/04/2010 10:26:00 PM 936 Views
This is why I sort of float around on this issue. - 27/04/2010 05:49:39 PM 983 Views
Re: This is why I sort of float around on this issue. - 13/05/2010 10:15:38 AM 1009 Views
Very well put. - 17/05/2010 06:51:27 PM 925 Views
Re: Very well put. - 17/05/2010 06:53:13 PM 1024 Views
This book is definitely literature. - 23/04/2010 02:59:48 AM 1049 Views
Re: This discussion gives me hives. *NM* - 23/04/2010 09:52:09 PM 553 Views
Understandable. - 26/04/2010 07:31:08 PM 913 Views
Hmmm - 12/05/2010 09:18:42 PM 1011 Views
What didn't you enjoy? - 21/04/2010 09:47:06 PM 911 Views
I didn't like the excessive description of the types of clouds on Solaris. - 22/04/2010 01:17:22 AM 884 Views
This was what I disliked too - 22/04/2010 05:46:05 AM 1099 Views
Re: I didn't like the excessive description of the types of clouds on Solaris. - 23/04/2010 03:33:14 AM 964 Views
Re: I found it made this stark contrast with his descriptions of his own, more human environment. - 24/04/2010 09:56:40 AM 1165 Views
That is an interesting take. - 27/04/2010 05:53:23 PM 1014 Views
I didn't really find anything difficult about it. - 23/04/2010 03:38:48 AM 990 Views
The only thing that bothered me... - 03/05/2010 07:06:42 PM 1135 Views
So, is there really anything to discuss about the story itself? - 22/04/2010 08:55:03 AM 1089 Views
Apparently not. - 22/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 1140 Views
True - 22/04/2010 09:29:53 PM 962 Views
Point of fact, - 23/04/2010 02:53:47 PM 1011 Views
Perhaps it's time for a self-reevaluation then - 24/04/2010 10:45:44 AM 1337 Views
Thank you for telling me how I should prioritize my life, Larry. - 26/04/2010 04:54:01 PM 1143 Views
At least I am not as quick to repeat the same excuses - 26/04/2010 05:13:08 PM 1290 Views
I was originally gonna reply to your previous post, then decided not to. Guess I will now. - 26/04/2010 05:42:15 PM 1134 Views
Thank you. - 26/04/2010 07:41:17 PM 1091 Views
One point... - 26/04/2010 07:34:02 PM 982 Views
Posting while irritated and about to crash does little good, it seems - 27/04/2010 06:20:19 PM 1059 Views
The delay to the review is my fault. I've got a mostly finished one. I'm just not happy with it. - 27/04/2010 07:19:35 PM 1031 Views
It wasn't the review I was irritated about, but thanks for doing it - 27/04/2010 07:39:08 PM 930 Views
Ah. OK. - 27/04/2010 07:47:09 PM 1088 Views
Thanks - 27/04/2010 07:58:54 PM 982 Views
I'm a bit ambivalent on the merits of this approach of yours. - 26/04/2010 05:32:19 PM 924 Views
You highlight my only frustration with the thread. - 26/04/2010 05:48:01 PM 1257 Views
Re: So what do you think about any of those things? - 23/04/2010 08:30:55 PM 951 Views
A question about Lem. - 23/04/2010 03:49:57 AM 1010 Views
I've only read one other book by him, The Cyberiad - 23/04/2010 04:03:19 AM 1086 Views
Re: A question about Lem. - 23/04/2010 07:26:18 PM 1067 Views
Thanks. - 24/04/2010 06:42:05 AM 1097 Views
Yes - 24/04/2010 02:43:17 PM 1050 Views
My main thoughts on Solaris by Stanislaw Lem - 23/04/2010 02:50:10 AM 1319 Views
Re: About that "worst" thoughts issue. - 23/04/2010 09:49:04 PM 1213 Views
Re: About that "worst" thoughts issue. - 12/05/2010 09:35:48 PM 1105 Views
I came away with the same message you did on the first point. - 25/04/2010 04:46:09 PM 950 Views
Re: My main thoughts on Solaris by Stanislaw Lem - 12/05/2010 09:31:32 PM 1108 Views
Re: So I have no team spirit and should be lynched. - 23/04/2010 09:41:48 PM 942 Views
I finally watched Avatar for the first time tonight. - 25/04/2010 04:27:34 AM 940 Views
Solaris was, I hope, better than Avatar. - 25/04/2010 04:54:12 AM 901 Views
Misplaced answer . *NM* - 25/04/2010 04:40:27 PM 474 Views
On identity and communication: do we love only ourselves? - 25/04/2010 03:35:34 PM 989 Views
The argument: (From the text and some thoughts) - 27/04/2010 06:22:34 PM 923 Views
Yes - 12/05/2010 10:10:30 PM 1080 Views
That is a great idea... - 17/05/2010 06:58:48 PM 1026 Views
Re: That is a great idea... - 17/05/2010 07:02:44 PM 1026 Views
That settles it. I am going to have to reread it. - 13/05/2010 12:23:14 AM 965 Views
It is interesting you should say that. - 12/05/2010 09:56:26 PM 1211 Views
That is the second time this week that I have heard something about Derrida. Now I am going to have - 13/05/2010 12:02:56 AM 1066 Views
Derrida is great. - 13/05/2010 10:06:49 AM 1080 Views
Is Solaris alive? Is Solaris sentient? - 25/04/2010 03:40:57 PM 962 Views
I can't decide. - 25/04/2010 03:54:39 PM 1109 Views
An interesting point to consider... - 25/04/2010 10:41:17 PM 1109 Views
Re: I can't decide. - 12/05/2010 10:05:21 PM 915 Views
Re: Is Solaris alive? Is Solaris sentient? - 25/04/2010 10:31:58 PM 1084 Views
Ooohhhh. I like that theory. - 25/04/2010 11:32:15 PM 1080 Views
Does it make a difference? - 26/04/2010 07:29:44 PM 927 Views
Re: Is Solaris alive? Is Solaris sentient? - 12/05/2010 09:57:05 PM 1057 Views
What do you think the biggest message of the book is? - 25/04/2010 03:47:03 PM 1024 Views
Re: Does he let go of her? How independant is she of him? - 25/04/2010 04:07:33 PM 1066 Views
That's an interesting observation. - 26/04/2010 10:23:28 PM 954 Views
Re: I was telling Tashmere... - 11/05/2010 11:05:09 AM 1086 Views
Re: What do you think the biggest message of the book is? - 25/04/2010 10:16:16 PM 1004 Views
Communication with the entirely other - 12/05/2010 10:01:37 PM 1038 Views
Did anyone else do any wondering what their own visitors would take the form of if they were there? - 26/04/2010 11:31:27 PM 945 Views
Actually, no. It was obvious to me. *NM* - 26/04/2010 11:41:22 PM 457 Views
In a way yes. - 27/04/2010 06:33:43 PM 1031 Views
My father, perhaps. - 27/04/2010 08:55:18 PM 939 Views
Ha. - 27/04/2010 09:16:56 PM 961 Views

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