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Re: So... Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 01/04/2010 06:41:34 PM
You agree at least that it's possible to deduce before LoC that Slayer is a deadly assassin/bounty hunter/hitman of the Shadow and uses TAR in the flesh? And you also agree that it's possible to deduce that Slayer and Luc are the same being? (e.g. both have the inhuman smell and suffer from Perrin's shot)


Yes, (I do agree with these.)

If you agree with this, your only problem seems to have been, how Slayer can use TAR in the flesh. You apparently (wrongly) thought that Luc is some kind of Dreamwalker, but instead of him entering TAR in the dream, the dead Isam is then somehow in TAR " in the flesh" (although he is dead..), like a Hero of the Horn, or something like that. Irrespective of the question if your idea makes any sense (in my view, it doesn't), I believe one could possibly also come up with the (actually correct!) idea that the DO gave LuC/Slayer the ability to enter TAR in the flesh at one point in the World and exist TAR again at any point, basically like a channeler can use TAR with a Gateway (we see that creatures of the Shadow often have channeler-like abilities). In this case Slayer could of course also use TAR to travel distances in the Real World, which would e.g. better explain how can Slayer quickly reach the Blight to get more Shadowspawn and quickly return to the Two Rivers or how he finds his victims. Naturally to have such an ability would make sense for someone, who was precisely created to make assassinations, namely to "course and kill". It would also explain the strange assassinations in the Stone and the WT, which apparently weren't done by a normal Gray Man, but by a special assassin.


That my idea wasn't correct is pretty obvious, but I'm not using it here because I somehow think that my initial impressions upon reading the book because I well know that I can be quite oblivious. Even as of Crossroads of Twilight I hadn't realised that Ishamael had appeared on screen. I'm using it because even now, knowing that it is wrong, knowing what comes later, it still makes more sense given the available information than divining the truth. It's not only more consistent with what Slayer does in that book,it also ties in neatly with the Dark Prophecy and the idea that dead souls can inhabit the Dreamworld, which we also discover in this book or the next.

Now, trying to defend this hypothesis would be futile, because it's a fact that it is wrong due to Winter's Heart. It is simply an example of a possibility for explaining Slayer that is consistent with what we have read.

Now, as for guessing that Slayer could jump in and out of the Dreamworld and use it for high-speed travel, that is inconsistent with what we know at the time. You've tried to provide an explanation for why he came back, but only because you started with the conclusion that he chose to do so. Nothing from that scene indicates that he had something precious he came back for, the entire scene indicates that he wants to be as far as possible as soon as possible. Even in retrospect, I doubt Slayer chose to come back. The way he disappeared after getting shot is inconsistent with the 'blurry motion' that Slayer has used to quickly move through the Dreamworld at high speeds, I still believe that he was simply Dreamwalking, though obviously I now know that this would be because he chose to do so, possibly so that nobody would realise something was amiss if someone entered his room while he was hunting.

The point is, the only incident of travel between the Dreamworld and the real world is consistent with Dreamwalking and inconsistent with travelling. How can your conclusion, at the time, be anything other than Slayer was dreaming?

I actually realise this is not especially important because even if Slayer couldn't jump through dreams, he still could have infiltrated the palace of Andor through mundane stealth, but I think the initial point of this discussion is no longer the centre of interest :P.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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Intuitively obvious, my dear Watson - 22/03/2010 01:53:54 AM 1790 Views
idle speculation != "Intuitivly obvious" - 22/03/2010 03:01:10 AM 558 Views
The best explanation for the "intuitively obvious"-comment is... - 22/03/2010 09:41:32 AM 577 Views
So again...how would Slayer know he was in the hallway? - 22/03/2010 03:18:51 PM 577 Views
I think Slayer spied on Asmo - 22/03/2010 03:45:20 PM 444 Views
Fair enough.... - 22/03/2010 06:25:25 PM 597 Views
I think... - 23/03/2010 09:31:41 AM 513 Views
I agree. Slayer is the most intuitively obvious candidate. *NM* - 22/03/2010 06:29:07 PM 210 Views
Slayer....the book4 minor villian? *NM* - 22/03/2010 06:34:52 PM 353 Views
Slayer actually was a major villian in TSR. - 23/03/2010 09:11:39 AM 408 Views
Re: Slayer actually was a major villian in TSR. - 28/03/2010 07:16:59 PM 445 Views
In my view, Graendal might have sent Slayer, which would explain her knowledge. *NM* - 29/03/2010 09:45:14 AM 447 Views
Actually that's one of my hang-ups about Slayer too - 06/04/2010 02:27:22 PM 424 Views
As far as I'm concerned... - 25/03/2010 06:42:53 AM 435 Views
The problem is that people don't read the books or at least ignore what is said about Slayer... - 25/03/2010 09:41:09 AM 424 Views
Correction... - 25/03/2010 05:22:46 PM 412 Views
So, basically... - 25/03/2010 05:50:42 PM 416 Views
The clues are there? - 25/03/2010 06:29:16 PM 433 Views
Re: The clues are there? - 26/03/2010 12:51:43 AM 401 Views
He wasn't being insulting, I don't think. - 26/03/2010 02:16:26 AM 451 Views
well, RJ was a nuclear engineer. 'Nuff said about obviousness, huh? - 26/03/2010 04:38:00 AM 456 Views
Apparently... - 26/03/2010 08:58:32 AM 427 Views
No it isn't. - 26/03/2010 05:43:02 PM 413 Views
You don't understand... - 27/03/2010 09:11:35 AM 440 Views
Re: You don't understand... - 27/03/2010 05:23:35 PM 444 Views
Re: You don't understand... - 28/03/2010 08:17:40 PM 403 Views
Yes, it's Winter's Heart. - 29/03/2010 04:01:41 AM 416 Views
Both merged into one being - 29/03/2010 09:43:47 AM 453 Views
Not what I asked. - 29/03/2010 06:10:42 PM 397 Views
If he couldn't do this... - 29/03/2010 06:59:16 PM 436 Views
Re: If he couldn't do this... - 29/03/2010 07:46:39 PM 399 Views
That Basel Gill comparison just silly... - 29/03/2010 08:49:19 PM 441 Views
Clearly, one of you has proved that Basel Gill is Demandred *NM* - 29/03/2010 10:12:00 PM 213 Views
I've asked you only one question, repeatedly. - 30/03/2010 12:34:44 AM 479 Views
Yeah, and I repeatedly tried to show you the clues... - 30/03/2010 09:17:59 AM 412 Views
You have never provided anything even resembling evidence. - 30/03/2010 08:20:54 PM 380 Views
Dude - 30/03/2010 09:49:05 PM 369 Views
You know what's really embarrassing? - 30/03/2010 10:28:38 PM 495 Views
be nice *NM* - 31/03/2010 01:22:03 AM 203 Views
One last time... - 31/03/2010 09:18:01 AM 412 Views
Re: One last time... - 31/03/2010 06:20:24 PM 412 Views
No... - 31/03/2010 06:31:57 PM 394 Views
Re: No... - 31/03/2010 11:43:42 PM 439 Views
So... - 01/04/2010 10:22:31 AM 400 Views
Re: So... - 01/04/2010 06:41:34 PM 499 Views
Egwene did it though - 09/04/2010 02:26:10 AM 415 Views
Not before Lord of Chaos she didn't. - 09/04/2010 08:03:12 AM 395 Views
Rand does it in the end of TFoH, though, shortly before Asmo's death. *NM* - 09/04/2010 08:34:23 AM 215 Views
But we don't actually see that - 09/04/2010 12:23:37 PM 401 Views
Hmm. True, that. - 09/04/2010 07:28:15 PM 349 Views
I see what you are saying now - 09/04/2010 12:08:00 PM 368 Views
Yep - 09/04/2010 07:27:27 PM 382 Views
A question on balefire/2 servants - 24/03/2010 04:31:49 PM 367 Views
Re: A question on balefire/2 servants - 24/03/2010 05:03:32 PM 377 Views
First rule of balefire: - 25/03/2010 06:44:17 AM 378 Views
Yep, that's my understanding too. - 25/03/2010 07:00:39 PM 397 Views
On the servants theory - 25/03/2010 11:33:08 AM 373 Views
Rand's odd wounds - 29/03/2010 02:48:58 AM 361 Views
Who says the Dark One couldn't bring Asmodean back? Why would he want to? - 25/03/2010 05:50:55 AM 449 Views
RJ said that. *NM* - 25/03/2010 09:31:32 AM 350 Views
Do you have that quote handy? - 28/03/2010 07:01:06 PM 383 Views
From memory, but can't find the URL - 28/03/2010 08:09:29 PM 368 Views
Here: - 29/03/2010 09:48:36 AM 372 Views
thanks! good job *NM* - 29/03/2010 10:13:12 PM 175 Views
You dont address all the criteria - 30/03/2010 11:27:58 PM 374 Views
Did you mean me? *NM* - 31/03/2010 05:54:56 AM 174 Views
@Fanatic-Templar: Proof Slayer can't travel through T'A'R... - 31/03/2010 03:54:19 AM 375 Views
Exactly my point. - 31/03/2010 05:02:41 AM 386 Views
Maybe none of it matters anyway, Slayer will go down like a punk and I know how it goes - 31/03/2010 05:56:46 AM 423 Views
Lan can swordfight with his boots? *NM* - 31/03/2010 06:41:53 AM 191 Views
I don't think so... read again *NM* - 31/03/2010 10:54:03 PM 167 Views
Re: Maybe none of it matters anyway, Slayer will go down like a punk and I know how it goes - 31/03/2010 03:52:16 PM 397 Views
thanks! but as soon as I posted - 01/04/2010 03:43:59 AM 373 Views
Re: Intuitively obvious, my dear Watson - 14/05/2010 01:28:38 AM 422 Views

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