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Thanks. *NM* Cannoli Send a noteboard - 18/03/2010 04:28:52 PM

It's easy to point out the various mistakes characters have made through their inexperience, navitity or idiotic nobility, but you've gone further than that; your post begins to unpick the underlying assumptions with which RJ approached the series. One of them, put simplistically, is that good people don't do bad things even for a good cause. Of course there have been exceptions to this rule, but they tend to be used to emphasise this principle, not undermine it. Dark!Rand starts lashing about with balefire as he slips into insanity and despair. Perrin reluctantly starts a war to free his people, but spends so much of his time hating himself for it that he fails to be an effective leader. Meanwhile, Egwene refuses to invade Tar Valon, despite having the opportunity and means, because it would be 'wrong' - stretching out the siege for weeks, time that could have been spent preparing the White Tower for Tarmon Gai'don. Nynaeve defeats Moghedian, but is so focused on 'bringing her to justice' that she lets one of the most dangeorus women in the world escape.

I think the problem with the books is, as you've said, that RJ always provides a more palatable alternative to harsh decisions. Considering that the WoT books are meant to be the story of several cascading and increasingly violent revolutions leading up to a final, earth-shattering apocolypse, there have been precious few truly desperate situations, and until Dark!Rand, almost no morally repugnant decisions. RJ has charted a path for his heroes which may be difficult and may make them suffer but always gives them a 'right thing to do'. And the readers are happy with this, because most of us subconsciously believe this is how the world really is.

Another belief we tend to have is that of the 'reward' - how many people on this board think that after Tarmon Gai'don, Rand will somehow live, those Aiel we like will survive, the White Tower will return to honour and strength, and the various characters we've grown fond of will finally be able to settle down and pursue their own interests and causes? But even a cursory analysis of the last Breaking makes this appealing vision look unlikely in the extreme - Lews Therin saved the world by plunging it into chaos, and it was centuries before the rubble stopped bouncing. Certainly no one who saw the beginning of the Breaking lived to see it end. But we tend to believe the myth that self-sacrifice deserves reward, and may even feel somewhat betrayed if our characters do not recieve it.

So, yes, I do agree that the characters have had an artificially easy time of it in some respects, but I think our cultural assumptions at large are more to blame for this than RJ in particular. It's also likely that people have written more believable books, but I suspect they don't sell so well.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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Did the characters come too easily to power? - 16/03/2010 11:37:31 PM 1850 Views
hehe I think I fell asleep during that read :p *NM* - 17/03/2010 01:12:55 AM 394 Views
Yes, and for Rand at least IMO, playing nice has cost dearly - 17/03/2010 04:59:32 AM 888 Views
Not necessarily - 18/03/2010 03:17:10 PM 835 Views
Good post. - 27/03/2010 01:43:24 PM 700 Views
Unfortunately, no. - 31/03/2010 10:23:58 AM 813 Views
Re: Unfortunately, no. - 02/04/2010 07:54:10 AM 636 Views
All the way through, up to ripping her self-delusional assessments of her "achievements" in KoD - 02/04/2010 09:27:54 PM 722 Views
A shame I missed it, then - 04/04/2010 08:55:40 AM 704 Views
Re: A shame I missed it, then - 10/04/2010 08:17:38 AM 676 Views
Cliffs notes anyone? *NM* - 17/03/2010 05:31:02 AM 1483 Views
TLDR *NM* - 17/03/2010 05:43:01 AM 560 Views
Trolloc luRns da Reeading? - 17/03/2010 08:27:23 AM 850 Views
Too long, didnt read *NM* - 17/03/2010 04:23:34 PM 338 Views
Cmon ppl pls reply to this, Cannoli has spent such a long time writing it.... I couldn't be bothered *NM* - 17/03/2010 10:31:38 AM 360 Views
*NM* - 17/03/2010 10:32:04 AM 370 Views
Re: Did the characters come too easily to power? - 17/03/2010 01:38:02 PM 819 Views
Thank you *NM* - 18/03/2010 03:17:52 PM 445 Views
I agree, very well written and thought out. - 19/03/2010 07:32:59 AM 767 Views
I did read it and it was good - 17/03/2010 02:33:26 PM 703 Views
I agree... *NM* - 17/03/2010 02:48:19 PM 382 Views
That depends on certain interpretations... - 18/03/2010 03:29:15 PM 922 Views
Rand is at the perfect position after TGS for his downfall... - 17/03/2010 02:49:55 PM 794 Views
Re: Rand is at the perfect position after TGS for his downfall... - 17/03/2010 06:15:18 PM 749 Views
I agree - 18/03/2010 03:35:05 PM 857 Views
Strong vs. Hard in other words - 19/03/2010 05:10:41 AM 712 Views
Loooong *NM* - 17/03/2010 03:52:25 PM 404 Views
Look who's talking - look at how you write "long" ! - 18/03/2010 02:06:42 PM 684 Views
Sheesh, you people are babies. I read it. Some good points. - 17/03/2010 05:35:08 PM 764 Views
Re: Sheesh, you people are babies. I read it. Some good points. - 17/03/2010 10:08:34 PM 907 Views
Oh and I forgot to add - 18/03/2010 01:41:28 AM 796 Views
Re: Sheesh, you people are babies. I read it. Some good points. - 18/03/2010 03:37:09 PM 776 Views
I think this is an excellent analysis - 18/03/2010 01:56:33 PM 784 Views
Thanks. *NM* - 18/03/2010 04:28:52 PM 412 Views
While most of this is true... - 19/03/2010 06:47:19 AM 681 Views
Siuan's failure to properly help Rand should motivate Egwene to overthrow...oh, right. Egwene. - 19/03/2010 11:52:10 PM 728 Views
What do you mean by "properly"? - 20/03/2010 07:57:26 AM 699 Views
She did that because the Black Ajah was her personal boogeyman - 20/03/2010 09:58:54 AM 836 Views
Re: The To'Raken - 06/04/2010 06:00:07 AM 743 Views
Re: The To'Raken - 07/04/2010 11:31:47 PM 957 Views
Re: The To'Raken - 09/04/2010 06:22:38 AM 668 Views

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