Re: On the meaning of kneeling before the Crystal Throne
DomA Send a noteboard - 18/03/2010 02:42:24 PM
It's obvious that the way the Seanchan interpret the prophecy, "kneeling to the throne" is for them just an expression to say that Rand must serve the Imperial power and win the Last Battle in the name the Empire. The actual verse may not even use the expression "kneel to the throne" word-for-word.
And yes, The Throne/the ruler/the Empire are interchangeable in this context. And by "kneeling to the Throne", they mean serving the throne, acknowledging the Empress's power, be a servant of the Empire like everyone is.
Is that even in question? For a Seanchan, you're either a servant of the Empire, or an enemy of the Empire. They don't have a middle-ground.
This quote puts an end to the debate (it won't, but it ought to...):
Clearly, the Seanchan don't consider the physical act of kneeling important in any way, let alone in Seandaer itself. It would happen because the Empress would want to see the Dragon in person before the LB, not because Prophecy says it must happen.
Tuon is the Empire, the throne, the Empress now. She seems to have decided that if he won't agree to save her, she would destroy his power and allies and defeat him, and then he'll serve her want it or not.
The problem with this foretelling is that Jordan cunningly never gave us the exact verses, we only got the Seanchan's interpretation. Some say kneeling to the throne, some speak of him serving the Empress, and some speak of Rand fighting the LB in service to the Empire. Some say that if Rand doesn't serve, all is lost.
The Return is tied to this - it has to be completed before TG, in the Seachan's beliefs. That means that for the Seanchan, serving the Empire means Rand serving... everyone. Under the authority of the throne, of course. For the Seanchan, everybody serves the Throne (even the Daughter of the Nine Moons kneels to the throne). The DR would be no exception.
Replace "the Empire" by "humanity" and that's pretty much the general meaning of some verses of the KC, that the DR will serve humanity and might save it in the LB, that he is humanity's only chance against the Shadow. The Seanchan just seem to have something in there which they interpret as the DR having to be a servant of the throne. The very same choice the Seanchan offer everyone: swear obedience to the throne, or be conquered.
This sounds like the work of an early ruler who didn't see the harm in tweaking a few things so it was specifically said the Dragon would serve the Empire in the KC.
Rand will fight for the Seanchan as well as for everyone else in the LB.
As for Rand acknowledging the Empress as his liege lady, the Seanchan are most likely better forget about that.
Perhaps Rand might have reconsidered how to approach the Seanchan after his Dragonmount episode, but Tuon's vicious attack on the White Tower won't exactly put Rand in good dispositions toward the Seanchan. They just proved that they can't be left to rot while the rest of the world fight TG.
And yes, The Throne/the ruler/the Empire are interchangeable in this context. And by "kneeling to the Throne", they mean serving the throne, acknowledging the Empress's power, be a servant of the Empire like everyone is.
Is that even in question? For a Seanchan, you're either a servant of the Empire, or an enemy of the Empire. They don't have a middle-ground.
This quote puts an end to the debate (it won't, but it ought to...):
"The Empress surely would want al'Thor sent to her, so she could see what sort of man served her."
Clearly, the Seanchan don't consider the physical act of kneeling important in any way, let alone in Seandaer itself. It would happen because the Empress would want to see the Dragon in person before the LB, not because Prophecy says it must happen.
Tuon is the Empire, the throne, the Empress now. She seems to have decided that if he won't agree to save her, she would destroy his power and allies and defeat him, and then he'll serve her want it or not.
The problem with this foretelling is that Jordan cunningly never gave us the exact verses, we only got the Seanchan's interpretation. Some say kneeling to the throne, some speak of him serving the Empress, and some speak of Rand fighting the LB in service to the Empire. Some say that if Rand doesn't serve, all is lost.
The Return is tied to this - it has to be completed before TG, in the Seachan's beliefs. That means that for the Seanchan, serving the Empire means Rand serving... everyone. Under the authority of the throne, of course. For the Seanchan, everybody serves the Throne (even the Daughter of the Nine Moons kneels to the throne). The DR would be no exception.
Replace "the Empire" by "humanity" and that's pretty much the general meaning of some verses of the KC, that the DR will serve humanity and might save it in the LB, that he is humanity's only chance against the Shadow. The Seanchan just seem to have something in there which they interpret as the DR having to be a servant of the throne. The very same choice the Seanchan offer everyone: swear obedience to the throne, or be conquered.
This sounds like the work of an early ruler who didn't see the harm in tweaking a few things so it was specifically said the Dragon would serve the Empire in the KC.
Rand will fight for the Seanchan as well as for everyone else in the LB.
As for Rand acknowledging the Empress as his liege lady, the Seanchan are most likely better forget about that.
Perhaps Rand might have reconsidered how to approach the Seanchan after his Dragonmount episode, but Tuon's vicious attack on the White Tower won't exactly put Rand in good dispositions toward the Seanchan. They just proved that they can't be left to rot while the rest of the world fight TG.
On the meaning of kneeling before the Crystal Throne
18/03/2010 12:14:52 PM
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Re: On the meaning of kneeling before the Crystal Throne
18/03/2010 02:42:24 PM
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I wrote this post...
18/03/2010 05:41:47 PM
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Re: I wrote this post...
18/03/2010 10:00:58 PM
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I generally agree with most you say, though some details differ. *NM*
19/03/2010 02:41:50 PM
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