On the meaning of kneeling before the Crystal Throne
Etzel Send a noteboard - 18/03/2010 12:14:52 PM
By now Fortuona must have realized that TG is very, very close, considering all the signs (e.g. ghosts, bad weather, spoiling food, Shadowspawn). One of the most important Prophecies of the Seanchan (which, as we know, is most likely corrupted) is that the Dragon Reborn has to kneel before the Crystal Throne before TG to save the world, as Tuon points out in WH, ch.14:
"I must find a way to make contact with the Dragon Reborn as soon as possible. He must kneel before the Crystal Throne before Tarmon Gai'don, or all is lost." She also considers that the Domination Band might be needed to bring Rand before the Crystal Throne. Of course at this time the Empress in Seandar is the personified Crystal Throne.
In PoD, ch.24, the Seanchan Captain-General Kennar Miraj muses:
"The Prophecies of the Dragon had been known in Seanchan even before Luthair Paendrag began the Consolidation. In corrupted form, it was said, much different from the pure version Luthair Paendrag brought. Miraj had seen several volumes of The Karaethon Cycle printed in these lands, and they were corrupted too - not one mentioned him serving the Crystal Throne! - but the Prophecies held men's minds and hearts still. More than a few hoped the Return came soon, that these lands could be reclaimed before Tarmon Gai'don so the Dragon Reborn could win the Last Battle for the glory of the Empress, might she live forever. The Empress surely would want al'Thor sent to her, so she could see what sort of man served her. There would be no difficulty with al'Thor once he had knelt to her . Few easily shook off the awe they felt, kneeling before the Crystal Throne, with the thirst to obey drying their tongues. But it seemed obvious that bundling the fellow onto a ship would be easier if disposing of the Asha'man - they had to be disposed of, certainly - waited until al'Thor was well on his way across the Aryth Ocean to Seandar."
And in TGS Tuon considers: "The war in Seanchan would not end quickly; but when it did, the victor would undoubtedly raise him - or herself to the Crystal Throne as well . And then there would be two leaders of the Seanchan Empire, divided by an ocean, united in desire to conquer one another." And she tells Galgan: "You wonder why our forces have not retreated, [...] Why we have not struck out for Seanchan to secure the throne. [...] This is the Dragon Reborn, and not just an impostor. I am convinced of it. He must bow before the Crystal Throne before the Last Battle can begin. And so we must stay. It is not an accident that the Return happened now. We are needed here. More than we are needed, unfortunately, in our homeland."
From this it's clear that in the Seanchan's view, Rand doesn't really has to kneel before the actual Crystal Throne, but before the personified Crystal Throne, namely the Empress/Emperor, to swear fealty. It naturally makes more sense that one has to kneel before the ruler, not only a throne; like Beslan did in TGS. Fortuona even states that she raised herself to the Crystal Throne and thus has to stay in the Westlands, although the actual throne still stands in Seandar. Plus, otherwise Tuon could hardly believe that she could still - before TG starts - defeat all of Rand's armies, capture him somehow alive (btw, do the Seanchan even have any male a'dam anymore?) and then return to the chaotic Seanchan to secure the Crystal Throne in Seandar and let Rand bow before it just to fulfill the Prophecy. Even if the Seanchan have the ability to Travel now, it still seems impossible to achieve that in time. Therefore it's just crucial to the Seanchan that the Dragon Reborn bows to the Empress, not that he comes in contact with the Crystal Throne ter'angeal (of course, if truly Ishy corrupted the Seanchan Prophecies he possibly had in mind that the DR will also be brought before the Crystal Throne-ter'angreal to control him).
So, what do you think might nevertheless convince Fortuona to abandon this goal (and apparently even make a deal with Egwene soon)? Common sense, a foretelling by Elaida, a convincing explanation by someone that the Seanchan Prophecy is corrupted (e.g. Farstrider might know this), ta'veren, the sword Justice or Hawkwing for some reason?
Or do you think that the "new" Rand will actually voluntarily bow to the Crystal Throne personified by the Empress Fortuona and serve her as the Seanchan Prophecies tell? (although the Prophecies of the Dragon foretell the contrary, namely that Rand "shall bind the nine moons to serve him" )
"I must find a way to make contact with the Dragon Reborn as soon as possible. He must kneel before the Crystal Throne before Tarmon Gai'don, or all is lost." She also considers that the Domination Band might be needed to bring Rand before the Crystal Throne. Of course at this time the Empress in Seandar is the personified Crystal Throne.
In PoD, ch.24, the Seanchan Captain-General Kennar Miraj muses:
"The Prophecies of the Dragon had been known in Seanchan even before Luthair Paendrag began the Consolidation. In corrupted form, it was said, much different from the pure version Luthair Paendrag brought. Miraj had seen several volumes of The Karaethon Cycle printed in these lands, and they were corrupted too - not one mentioned him serving the Crystal Throne! - but the Prophecies held men's minds and hearts still. More than a few hoped the Return came soon, that these lands could be reclaimed before Tarmon Gai'don so the Dragon Reborn could win the Last Battle for the glory of the Empress, might she live forever. The Empress surely would want al'Thor sent to her, so she could see what sort of man served her. There would be no difficulty with al'Thor once he had knelt to her . Few easily shook off the awe they felt, kneeling before the Crystal Throne, with the thirst to obey drying their tongues. But it seemed obvious that bundling the fellow onto a ship would be easier if disposing of the Asha'man - they had to be disposed of, certainly - waited until al'Thor was well on his way across the Aryth Ocean to Seandar."
And in TGS Tuon considers: "The war in Seanchan would not end quickly; but when it did, the victor would undoubtedly raise him - or herself to the Crystal Throne as well . And then there would be two leaders of the Seanchan Empire, divided by an ocean, united in desire to conquer one another." And she tells Galgan: "You wonder why our forces have not retreated, [...] Why we have not struck out for Seanchan to secure the throne. [...] This is the Dragon Reborn, and not just an impostor. I am convinced of it. He must bow before the Crystal Throne before the Last Battle can begin. And so we must stay. It is not an accident that the Return happened now. We are needed here. More than we are needed, unfortunately, in our homeland."
From this it's clear that in the Seanchan's view, Rand doesn't really has to kneel before the actual Crystal Throne, but before the personified Crystal Throne, namely the Empress/Emperor, to swear fealty. It naturally makes more sense that one has to kneel before the ruler, not only a throne; like Beslan did in TGS. Fortuona even states that she raised herself to the Crystal Throne and thus has to stay in the Westlands, although the actual throne still stands in Seandar. Plus, otherwise Tuon could hardly believe that she could still - before TG starts - defeat all of Rand's armies, capture him somehow alive (btw, do the Seanchan even have any male a'dam anymore?) and then return to the chaotic Seanchan to secure the Crystal Throne in Seandar and let Rand bow before it just to fulfill the Prophecy. Even if the Seanchan have the ability to Travel now, it still seems impossible to achieve that in time. Therefore it's just crucial to the Seanchan that the Dragon Reborn bows to the Empress, not that he comes in contact with the Crystal Throne ter'angeal (of course, if truly Ishy corrupted the Seanchan Prophecies he possibly had in mind that the DR will also be brought before the Crystal Throne-ter'angreal to control him).
So, what do you think might nevertheless convince Fortuona to abandon this goal (and apparently even make a deal with Egwene soon)? Common sense, a foretelling by Elaida, a convincing explanation by someone that the Seanchan Prophecy is corrupted (e.g. Farstrider might know this), ta'veren, the sword Justice or Hawkwing for some reason?
Or do you think that the "new" Rand will actually voluntarily bow to the Crystal Throne personified by the Empress Fortuona and serve her as the Seanchan Prophecies tell? (although the Prophecies of the Dragon foretell the contrary, namely that Rand "shall bind the nine moons to serve him" )
This message last edited by Etzel on 18/03/2010 at 12:16:37 PM
On the meaning of kneeling before the Crystal Throne
18/03/2010 12:14:52 PM
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Re: On the meaning of kneeling before the Crystal Throne
18/03/2010 02:42:24 PM
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I wrote this post...
18/03/2010 05:41:47 PM
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Re: I wrote this post...
18/03/2010 10:00:58 PM
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I generally agree with most you say, though some details differ. *NM*
19/03/2010 02:41:50 PM
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