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This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. Kieran Send a noteboard - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM
Ishamael is the ultimate villain and minion for the Dark One. He believes in pure evil, knows what it means to break the Wheel, and still supports it. This makes him unique among the Forsaken - the rest still think that they'll rule in hell.

In part, I therefore disagree with Shannow. I think Ishamael, like every great philosopher in our history, is a step higher in mental functioning. He is more intelligent than the other Forsaken, and probably every character we know. The fact that he chose the wrong side is curious, except for the fact that he thinks it is the right side. That's possibly why his peers think he's mad.


Ishamael has many similarities to the fallen angel Lucifer. In this case how absolute knowledge brings Pride and a Nihilistic PoV to life. As the Bible puts it: "Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee", and later, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee." This tells of how he had ultimate wisdom and through his great reasoning fell.
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Ishamael's nature Sidious - 01/03/2010 05:27:48 PM 1763 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature Watcher - 01/03/2010 07:15:54 PM 787 Views
Sisyphus *NM* damookster - 02/03/2010 02:27:06 AM 261 Views
Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... Shannow - 01/03/2010 07:23:37 PM 801 Views
I'd go with this - he lost sight of the forest for enumerating the trees. Cannoli - 01/03/2010 08:21:39 PM 865 Views
I agree, except with your statement on what Ishamael's area of expertise is ... Shishka - 02/03/2010 03:17:13 PM 632 Views
Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:38:06 PM 655 Views
Are you saying that philosophers are inherently more intelligent than other academics? Shannow - 02/03/2010 04:53:13 PM 553 Views
Maybe Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:00:20 PM 617 Views
Crap File Leader - 02/03/2010 08:58:12 PM 609 Views
That high IQ should make you realise that I am making the same point you are... Shannow - 02/03/2010 09:53:59 PM 567 Views
I think the averages are averages. Kieran - 03/03/2010 01:14:41 AM 535 Views
Re: Crap RugbyPlayingAshaman - 05/03/2010 08:46:56 PM 508 Views
Re: Crap mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:36:16 PM 479 Views
I love IQ tests. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:18:10 AM 478 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Shishka - 02/03/2010 05:30:43 PM 567 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:01:41 PM 575 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:31:14 PM 517 Views
I'm not an expert on nihilism, but ... Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:22:33 PM 672 Views
I doubt that. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:21:32 AM 490 Views
Re: I doubt that. car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:41:43 PM 474 Views
Yep, I agree. Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:58:03 PM 569 Views
This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. Kieran - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM 556 Views
Re: Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... BlackAdder - 02/03/2010 07:22:58 PM 539 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 01:49:19 AM 609 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:51:44 PM 549 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:31:32 PM 529 Views
Both of us are saying the same thing car'a'aman - 03/03/2010 01:46:57 PM 493 Views
sorry, took "evil" too literally and newyorkersedai - 03/03/2010 07:02:01 PM 477 Views
Found a great theory about Ishamael and his logic on theoryland car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:48:02 PM 875 Views
Nice Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:41:05 PM 545 Views
Impressive newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:24:09 PM 538 Views
I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:47:47 AM 538 Views
Re: I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:37:27 PM 483 Views
Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 06:23:19 PM 482 Views
Re: Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. car'a'aman - 09/03/2010 01:54:26 PM 466 Views
Because there is a Creator. Fanatic-Templar - 09/03/2010 05:57:16 PM 459 Views
faulty assumptions car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 05:05:23 AM 466 Views
Impossible. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 06:22:43 AM 461 Views
maybe an analogy will help car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 12:55:37 PM 879 Views
But therein lies the problem. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 04:58:42 PM 459 Views
your own argument is self defeating car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:10:36 AM 486 Views
No, that past was created after he was imprisoned. Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:43:08 PM 489 Views
*sigh* I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then.... I still think your theory is flawed *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:11:10 AM 222 Views
Anyway I just realized this point is irrelevant to the original theory car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:14:20 AM 466 Views
Yes, I said that at the very beginning: *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:44:19 PM 217 Views
Your reasons and mine for irrelevancy are different.. *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:12:52 AM 206 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/03/2010 10:43:16 PM 546 Views
I don't know if this has any basis in fact... Napoleon62 - 04/03/2010 02:44:26 AM 611 Views
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