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Your argument is irrelevant. Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 24/02/2010 11:58:45 PM
You're still saying the same thing, only using a more palatable example. If there is no other way to obtain that sandwich, and given that having a sandwich is presumably better than not having a sandwich, especially if you're hungry, then the fact that the only way for him to obtain that sandwich was through war means that the war is justified, because he must do it to retrieve his sandwich.

The point is exactly what you said: there is no compelling reason for a war over a sandwich. But thanks to this line, you don't need one, the war justifies itself.

Of course, Lan is using it for a specific example where the lengths to which the Shadow are willing to go to in order to capture Rand, Mat and Perrin demonstrates that it is necessary to keep them out of the Shadow's hands. If the Shadow wants something that badly, then obviously the Light needs to keep it out of their hands.

But the problem is that he phrases that sentence as a general rule, not a specific case. And once you extrapolate what exactly such a rule entails, it's core insanity is revealed.


That is one of the stupidest straw-man arguments I have seen. Exactly why is there only one sandwich, and why does someone want just that one sandwich? Why not have some pizza?

The point is, in any hypothetical war over a sandwich, there is no "must". There is no compulsion to pay the price, and hence the sandwich is not worth a war.


Situations where there is actually no choice are exceedingly rare, and the situation Lan was in was not one of them. He did not have to keep the ta'veren from the Shadow. He did not have to bring them to Baerlon or the Stag and Lion. There are any number of hypothetical situations in which the Stag and Lion could have avoided burning, but they didn't, so Lan justifies the burning by saying that the fact that it burnt proves that it was a worthwhile sacrifice.

Likewise, there are any number of reasons why waging war over a sandwich is stupid. The example was selected precisely for its stupidity. However, applying the same logic as Lan used in his situation, after the war has been waged, the fact that thousands died justifies the war for the sandwich. Even though there were any number of alternatives. The argument is expressed after the fact to justify whatever you just did as having a worthy cause, as demonstrated by the price that had to be paid to achieve it.

Actually, now that I think about it it's like the argument for the existence of gods based on martyrs. It goes 'nobody would have endured so much suffering for a god that wasn't real, therefore their god is real'.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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