Active Users:903 Time:15/11/2024 08:03:02 AM
Re: I've been saying since wotmania that they are no worse than anyone else. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 19/02/2010 07:37:25 PM

but what wetland society is a paragon of social justice?


No, it's not. My point was that if you have the same two evils, why suddenly pick one, if you already subjected to the other? It's pointless. But that what I'm reading from some of the posters, that somehow Seanchan rule should be accepted because presumably it's better.

Name ONE account of Seanchan abuse in the entire series. Even Suroth is a better ruler than most of the High Lords and in some ways a more tolerant conqueror than Rand.


I would pick as an example of abuse the execution of Mistress of Ships and her husband.

As far as we know:

a) Sea Folks were never declared a war on Seanchan, but rather were attacked by Seanchan, so why executing the leaders of people you attacked? That's injustice to me.
That's a war thing, not a rulership. And how do we know they did NOT rebel after the initial conquest? We don't know the circumstances of their execution, only that the attitudes of the other captives makes their resistance even after capture plausible.

b) Sea Folks were never subjects of Arthur Hawkwings empire and Seanchan can't claim that they betrayed any oaths. Again, why demanding swearing oaths from Sea Folks and then executing when they are disobeying, when Sea Folk were never subjects of the old empire in the first place?
Maybe they don't have a casus belli, but that is a completely different issue. Wetlanders go to war with as little justification.

c) Seanchan executed Mistress just to spread the fear among other Sea Folks, because as far as we know, the others that were resisting the invasion, were not executed, but rather put into slavery. That means the Seanchan "justice" is not equal to all. Who knows what other injustices are there.
No, the higher-ups are held to higher standards of justice. An improvement over the other lands, where rank confers immunities to the law. As I said above, you also know nothing of the circumstances for which they were executed, so you cannot call that particular case an injustice. As you cite, it does seem to be an aberration, making it more likely that it WAS justifiable under their rules. Sorry, but an aberration is logically more likely to prove to not be an abberration than it is to be indicative of a pattern of unseen anomalies.

d) We've seen some sort of accounts of abuse, or rather aftermath of these accounts, when Altarans are running afraid from Deathwatch Guards for example.
A belligerent people known for casual violence, petty murder, and flagrant disregard of law enforcement authorities WOULD be the best barometer of good rule, wouldn't they? 8} They fled because they have guilty consciences! Look at the reputation the city had back in tFoH & LoC - all your example does is argue in support of the Seanchan's virtues as rulers. You don't see property owners and respectable people afraid to mouth off to high-ranking Seanchan officers and official. But no, the frank speech of Mistress Anan & Bethamin's innkeeper to their occupiers is an aberration - it is the fear of troublemakers and street thugs who truly indicate that the Seanchan are to be feared.

Usually people are running afraid from someone, when someone shown violence and abuse in the past. For example, you don't see any other commoner running afraid from any other nobels or solders in other Randland countries. Even Tear, where abuse of commoners was allowed. But we see it in Altara.
We see bullies who are used to having their own way with the police, in a city whose ruler was afraid to send her forces into certain parts of the city, suddenly appalled because they are confronted with a well-run city! And how do you account for the Tinkers flocking to their rule?
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Reply to message
Will Rand bow to the Crystal Throne? - 16/02/2010 07:03:12 PM 2043 Views
Re: Will Rand bow to the Crystal Throne? - 16/02/2010 07:07:51 PM 1079 Views
Like I said below.... - 16/02/2010 07:33:59 PM 878 Views
I lean towards somethng like this as a result of the end of tGS. - 16/02/2010 08:24:20 PM 1046 Views
Yeah, Rand doesn't have many options left - 16/02/2010 09:13:26 PM 775 Views
Ignore this ... double post.... - 16/02/2010 09:13:35 PM 715 Views
So you think him submitting to the Seanchan is a good thing? - 17/02/2010 07:25:13 PM 957 Views
It's WoT. You win by surrendering. Metaphysical judo, if you will. - 17/02/2010 11:03:22 PM 842 Views
Re: It's WoT. You win by surrendering. Metaphysical judo, if you will. - 17/02/2010 11:41:11 PM 792 Views
Re: It's WoT. You win by surrendering. Metaphysical judo, if you will. - 18/02/2010 03:23:39 AM 742 Views
Re: It's WoT. You win by surrendering. Metaphysical judo, if you will. - 18/02/2010 03:38:04 AM 825 Views
Perhaps if they reform, other rulers will accept them. - 18/02/2010 05:59:16 AM 810 Views
Re: I lean towards somethng like this as a result of the end of tGS. - 18/02/2010 07:18:44 AM 781 Views
Why everyone's loving Seanchan? - 18/02/2010 02:41:07 PM 766 Views
Re: Why everyone's loving Seanchan? - 19/02/2010 07:48:07 AM 803 Views
I've been saying since wotmania that they are no worse than anyone else. - 19/02/2010 03:23:22 PM 794 Views
Re: I've been saying since wotmania that they are no worse than anyone else. - 19/02/2010 06:13:08 PM 712 Views
Re: I've been saying since wotmania that they are no worse than anyone else. - 19/02/2010 07:37:25 PM 845 Views
the entire system of Seekers isn't an abuse of power? Bethamin winds up fleeing due to her fear of - 20/02/2010 12:13:52 AM 831 Views
Agree - 20/02/2010 01:04:26 AM 862 Views
Re: Agree - 20/02/2010 03:46:03 PM 766 Views
Re: Why everyone's loving Seanchan? - 19/02/2010 04:27:13 PM 681 Views
Re: Why everyone's loving Seanchan? - 19/02/2010 05:41:08 PM 711 Views
Re: Why everyone's loving Seanchan? - 19/02/2010 05:41:53 PM 851 Views
Re: Will Rand bow to the Crystal Throne? - 16/02/2010 09:51:36 PM 908 Views
I think it's a false prophecy - 17/02/2010 12:39:23 AM 868 Views
"Bow, or be bowed." *NM* - 18/02/2010 03:39:04 PM 489 Views
Submit to Fortuona - 02/03/2010 10:02:31 AM 692 Views
Just A Possibility - 02/03/2010 09:52:20 PM 729 Views

Reply to Message