Re: It's WoT. You win by surrendering. Metaphysical judo, if you will.
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 19/02/2010 03:18:35 PM
But what about the political implications? Whatever Rand's motivations may be, the Seanchan are not exactly popular in the areas under his control. If he were to kneel to Tuon, he could well lose the support of those that are loyal to him.
And he would care about that why? Actually, the Seanchan are very popular in the areas they control. That is part of the problem, and why Rand considered a deal at all, and part of what made him re-think the Choedan Kal option for dealing with them.The Aiel WO would not be all that happy about it since many are channelers and think collaring is evil. And we know that it is the work of the WO that has been keeping the Aiel with Rand. If they turn to oppose him, he will likely lose the Aiel. Especially considering how badly he has treated them in his madness.
Well, screw them sideways. He has treated them better than they deserve considering all the balking, rebelling and petulance he has encountered among the Aiel. THEY need him to survive the Last Battle, while his last few major victories have involved precious little from the Aiel. They failed in Arad Domon, he took Illian without their help, defeated the Seanchan twice without them, and his bloodiest fight was against their kind. Oh, and it took Seanchan to help end the last problem coughed up by Aiel intransigence. Sevanna the terrorist, whom the Aiel refused to bend their rules to expeditiously remove, was taken out of play by a Seanchan general! And the Aiel wonder why Perrin was balking at whacking Maseema? He had far more of a claim to Perrin's mercy than Sevanna had when she was wandering unscathed in the Aiel camps near the city her forces had almost destroyed. The next time Rand slights the Aiel beyond what they deserve, it will be the first time. Sorilea whines that he sees them as merely another spear, but what exactly are the Aiel good at besides mindless violence? The people who kill you for slights to their honor get petualant when told to kidnap leaders and have to be assuaged with meaningless fictions that they are protecting them? No, a subtle and politically significant mission that brings peace is nasty in their eyes! A justified action is when they invade a country and cause tons of collateral damage and kill innocents over a tree.
And if the Wise Ones try to sway the Aiel against Rand for his submitting to the Seanchan, I would expect them to learn why the headband folks call themselves "SPEARS of the Dragon." Remember, if there is a shred of any decency to these overgrown babies, they will recall that the Wise Ones have brought the split and the bleakness on them with their 3,000 years of lies. It was Rand who gave them the truth, and a people with any self-respect and honor should remember that and consult the Seanchan on the proper way to handle female channelers who try to run your nation though underhanded means.
Ituralde would go crazy as would his men. He would turn on Rand for sure. Heck, Rand's decision to betray his word to Ituralde combined with this would likely have him join the WT or something to violently oppose Rand.
Pfft. Let him. A pittance of men with a starving, collapsing failed state behind them. Great captain or no, there's not a lot he can make out of that. Most of the rulers that follow him would think that he has submitted Tuon's authority, and reject/oppose him out of fear that he would surrender their lands to the Seanchan.
You mean all of Darlin, who is basically tied hand and foot to him, and would lose any credibility with his own followers if he turned on Rand, who is more popular with the Tairen commoners than any High Lord? What other "rulers?" Dobraine charged into 40,000 Shaido for Rand, and has defied Aes Sedai on his behalf. Berelain & Annoura are firmly under Perrin's thumb. Bashere is the one who negotiated with the Seanchan on his behalf, and urged him to moderation in his campaign goals against them. Borderlanders, with their positive view of AS would reject him utterly for siding with AS-slavery. They are already anti-Rand, this would likely destroy any chance of reconciliation.
Aviendha summed it up best. When push comes to shove, all anyone has to do is show them Trollocs attacking Rand, and they'll line up in a row, bend over and grab their ankles if it will get their armies back home. For the promise of reinforcements and supplementary channelers, they'd tell him that grease is optional. They'd ACCEPT damane if they could be used to hold back the Trollocs.Cadsuane says that even a simple truce for the duration of the last battle would be very unpopular. Imagine how unpopular it would be for the Dragon Reborn to kneel and submit. And that is how it would be seen, regardless of whatever secret scheme Rand might have going on.
And Rand's objections still hold true. The only way I could see this working, is if Rand kneels, and then instantly (before rumours can spread of his submission) does something to clearly and openly bind Tuon to him, showing evryone that he is not a slave of the Seanchan. Anything else would simply end up costing him too much.
Or, here's a wild guess, lets his top echelon of rulers know what he's up to and make the point that he's doing it so THEIR lands won't be attacked while he is leading their troops against the Shadow.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Will Rand bow to the Crystal Throne?
16/02/2010 07:03:12 PM
- 2043 Views
I lean towards somethng like this as a result of the end of tGS.
16/02/2010 08:24:20 PM
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So you think him submitting to the Seanchan is a good thing?
17/02/2010 07:25:13 PM
- 957 Views
It's WoT. You win by surrendering. Metaphysical judo, if you will.
17/02/2010 11:03:22 PM
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Re: It's WoT. You win by surrendering. Metaphysical judo, if you will.
17/02/2010 11:41:11 PM
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Re: It's WoT. You win by surrendering. Metaphysical judo, if you will.
18/02/2010 03:23:39 AM
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Re: It's WoT. You win by surrendering. Metaphysical judo, if you will.
18/02/2010 03:38:04 AM
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Re: It's WoT. You win by surrendering. Metaphysical judo, if you will.
19/02/2010 03:18:35 PM
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Re: I lean towards somethng like this as a result of the end of tGS.
18/02/2010 07:18:44 AM
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Re: I lean towards somethng like this as a result of the end of tGS.
18/02/2010 01:22:49 PM
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Why everyone's loving Seanchan?
18/02/2010 02:41:07 PM
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As I said - all of Randland's political systems have strengths and weaknesses.
18/02/2010 05:46:40 PM
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I've been saying since wotmania that they are no worse than anyone else.
19/02/2010 03:23:22 PM
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Re: I've been saying since wotmania that they are no worse than anyone else.
19/02/2010 06:13:08 PM
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Re: I've been saying since wotmania that they are no worse than anyone else.
19/02/2010 07:37:25 PM
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the entire system of Seekers isn't an abuse of power? Bethamin winds up fleeing due to her fear of
20/02/2010 12:13:52 AM
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No, they're the only group that seems to pay more than lip service to the concept of responsibility
20/02/2010 03:37:58 PM
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You asked for an example of abuse of power. The Seekers are a clear abuse no better than any
20/02/2010 04:42:06 PM
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Thanks for the perspective of outsiders and the behavior of a Darkfriend. THAT's good info!
24/02/2010 01:26:39 PM
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