It's WoT. You win by surrendering. Metaphysical judo, if you will.
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 17/02/2010 11:03:22 PM
"Kneeling to the throne" means submitting to its authority. It means Rand no longer takes initiative to fight the Shadow and, instead, obeys Tuon's wishes and allows himself to be used as her tool. And you think this is a good thing?
That's not what I think it means. It might mean acknowledging her social superiority or higher rank, but it does not require him to obey her or submit to her will. He's going to bind the Nine Moons to serve him anyway, so it could be a ruse or a trick that gets him access to the Seanchan so he can turn the tables, or it could be some aspect of Seanchan law gives him certain protections that he would not ordinarily have. For instance, the Seanchan, paradoxically, appear to be one of the most free nations in some ways. Setting aside the issue of gender treatment, I would rather be a commoner in Seanchan than a wealthy woman in Far Madding, if for no other reason than the Seanchan don't restrict people's movements and have no problem with people carrying weapons. Unless you are a part of the Seanchan apparatus of government or power, your rights seem remarkably broad, and the Blood in general, and Tuon in particular seem to genuinely believe in the duties that attend their high stations, and to recognize the limits of their power (hence the whole intrigue and assassination thing - they use such methods because their ability to act openly is constrained). If Rand kneels to the Empress, perhaps that means the Seanchan equivalent of the Bill of Rights suddenly applies to him! It does not ncessarily make him a vassal (and going by how Tuon deals with Beslan, a Seanchan vassal seems to have a lot of freedom, too) or sworn soldier in the Empress's service, but it might mean that Imperial justice now applies to him, and he is entitled to the protection of Seanchan law. If he does NOT kneel to the Crystal Throne, he is a foreigner who must be conquered, but if he kneels he is a subject who is protected. And if he can retain his private citizen status, there is no real downside, apart from his ego. I'm not saying that is what will happen or even is likely to happen, but it is one example of how it COULD turn out better for him. In any event kneeling might not be the best possible relationship with the Empress from his point of view, but that ship sailed when he screwed up their first meeting.
Also, if you want to go this route, then Rand has no choice but to kneel to Egwene as well since he can no longer meet her as an "equal" (since the world basically equates the Amyrlin as being above everyone save the Creator *her*self).
It's not like he's burned that bridge, as he did with Tuon. He has the power to blow off Egwene, and does not really need anything from her, aside from her non-interference.
So when he's done kneeling and submitting and scraping to Tuon, he can go kneel and bow and scrape and submit to Egwene as well because you know damned well Egwene will *not* be bowing to Tuon and will somehow manage to get the upper hand over her and the Seanchan.
I don't doubt that RJ fully intended to have Rand submit to Egwene's authority, but I find it difficult to believe that he intended to have Tuon have a leash on Rand as well. Someone has to be the "big dog" and that will be Egwene, not Tuon. Then again, maybe RJ's plan was to have Rand submit to Tuon, get reamed by Egwene for it, have Egwene stomp Tuon into submission, then get control of Rand by default after she assumes control of the Seanchan. Actually, that sounds about right.
I don't doubt that RJ fully intended to have Rand submit to Egwene's authority, but I find it difficult to believe that he intended to have Tuon have a leash on Rand as well. Someone has to be the "big dog" and that will be Egwene, not Tuon. Then again, maybe RJ's plan was to have Rand submit to Tuon, get reamed by Egwene for it, have Egwene stomp Tuon into submission, then get control of Rand by default after she assumes control of the Seanchan. Actually, that sounds about right.
Actually, since we don't know what kneeling would entail, I think my idea, that it will somehow be the key to getting the Seanchan to serve him, is more in keeping with the themes and methods of WoT.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Will Rand bow to the Crystal Throne?
16/02/2010 07:03:12 PM
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I lean towards somethng like this as a result of the end of tGS.
16/02/2010 08:24:20 PM
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So you think him submitting to the Seanchan is a good thing?
17/02/2010 07:25:13 PM
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It's WoT. You win by surrendering. Metaphysical judo, if you will.
17/02/2010 11:03:22 PM
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Re: It's WoT. You win by surrendering. Metaphysical judo, if you will.
17/02/2010 11:41:11 PM
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Re: It's WoT. You win by surrendering. Metaphysical judo, if you will.
18/02/2010 03:23:39 AM
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Re: It's WoT. You win by surrendering. Metaphysical judo, if you will.
18/02/2010 03:38:04 AM
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Re: It's WoT. You win by surrendering. Metaphysical judo, if you will.
19/02/2010 03:18:35 PM
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Re: I lean towards somethng like this as a result of the end of tGS.
18/02/2010 07:18:44 AM
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Re: I lean towards somethng like this as a result of the end of tGS.
18/02/2010 01:22:49 PM
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Why everyone's loving Seanchan?
18/02/2010 02:41:07 PM
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As I said - all of Randland's political systems have strengths and weaknesses.
18/02/2010 05:46:40 PM
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I've been saying since wotmania that they are no worse than anyone else.
19/02/2010 03:23:22 PM
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Re: I've been saying since wotmania that they are no worse than anyone else.
19/02/2010 06:13:08 PM
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Re: I've been saying since wotmania that they are no worse than anyone else.
19/02/2010 07:37:25 PM
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the entire system of Seekers isn't an abuse of power? Bethamin winds up fleeing due to her fear of
20/02/2010 12:13:52 AM
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No, they're the only group that seems to pay more than lip service to the concept of responsibility
20/02/2010 03:37:58 PM
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You asked for an example of abuse of power. The Seekers are a clear abuse no better than any
20/02/2010 04:42:06 PM
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Thanks for the perspective of outsiders and the behavior of a Darkfriend. THAT's good info!
24/02/2010 01:26:39 PM
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