She's in a different environment. What serious challenge has she faced?
Lord Haart Send a noteboard - 15/02/2010 06:54:53 PM
The harshness of the physical tortures were sadly undermined by the writing - I really didn't feel like she was emotionally affected by any of it, so it's hard for me to think of her as having gone through any trauma in the series.
Yeah, 'cause the societies that Rand changed were SO moral in the first place...
Rand's flaw is his temper, but this seems to have been tied to his troubles with LTT and the link to Moridin/TP (which is now at least partway gone). Regardless, I have no sympathy for the upper class of the countries he's taken over. They were corrupt, living off the deaths and suffering of people whom they never even considered to be people.
Only in TGS was his judgement truly clouded, when he did turn on his allies for, oh, maybe 1 book? 1/12 of the series? Due to factors beyond his control at that. Collar Egwene and make her strangle Gawyn to near-death, then see how well she treats the Hall after that. The only reason she doesn't execute half of them is that they are going to follow her even more meekly than the most dedicated of Rand's servants. BA aside, none of the AS Egwene has encountered are evil, not like the nobles that Rand has seen.
Not only that, but world politics is totally different from power politics. Elayne and Moiraine both note that Rand in TSR/TFoH/LoC has found a balance between fairness and harshness which few rulers achieve. Being too "soft" is a serious flaw in his position. And he has recently learned the dangers of harshness.
Ultimately, I can't recall a single time Egwene has heard any criticism except for that given by Elaida, which is like being criticised by Stalin at this point in the series. Rand, however, actually considers much of the criticism he hears - at the very least, in his POVs, he is very aware of most of his flaws. Egwene has not ever (that I can remember) considered whether another person could do her job better (after all, there is no prophecy that binds her, whereas Rand's abdication would spell disaster), nor has she ever considered that she might owe some respect to others (eg Siuan, who likely saved her life in TGS and has been a longtime friend and mentor). Even in his darkest hours, Rand has respect for Nynaeve and tolerates the bullying of Cadsuane for a substantial length of time considering his treatment by AS and her ridiculous expectation that he let her lead him by the nose. So far, only Moiraine and Min seem to fully understand that Rand works best when treated as an equal. Egwene, however, seems far more comfortable with power, and that scares me.
Re: right, because she's threatened to hang people who disobey, or bodily thrown people out of her rooms. Or forced her followers to change the fundamentals of their society to suit her needs.
Yeah, 'cause the societies that Rand changed were SO moral in the first place...
Rand's flaw is his temper, but this seems to have been tied to his troubles with LTT and the link to Moridin/TP (which is now at least partway gone). Regardless, I have no sympathy for the upper class of the countries he's taken over. They were corrupt, living off the deaths and suffering of people whom they never even considered to be people.
Only in TGS was his judgement truly clouded, when he did turn on his allies for, oh, maybe 1 book? 1/12 of the series? Due to factors beyond his control at that. Collar Egwene and make her strangle Gawyn to near-death, then see how well she treats the Hall after that. The only reason she doesn't execute half of them is that they are going to follow her even more meekly than the most dedicated of Rand's servants. BA aside, none of the AS Egwene has encountered are evil, not like the nobles that Rand has seen.
Not only that, but world politics is totally different from power politics. Elayne and Moiraine both note that Rand in TSR/TFoH/LoC has found a balance between fairness and harshness which few rulers achieve. Being too "soft" is a serious flaw in his position. And he has recently learned the dangers of harshness.
Ultimately, I can't recall a single time Egwene has heard any criticism except for that given by Elaida, which is like being criticised by Stalin at this point in the series. Rand, however, actually considers much of the criticism he hears - at the very least, in his POVs, he is very aware of most of his flaws. Egwene has not ever (that I can remember) considered whether another person could do her job better (after all, there is no prophecy that binds her, whereas Rand's abdication would spell disaster), nor has she ever considered that she might owe some respect to others (eg Siuan, who likely saved her life in TGS and has been a longtime friend and mentor). Even in his darkest hours, Rand has respect for Nynaeve and tolerates the bullying of Cadsuane for a substantial length of time considering his treatment by AS and her ridiculous expectation that he let her lead him by the nose. So far, only Moiraine and Min seem to fully understand that Rand works best when treated as an equal. Egwene, however, seems far more comfortable with power, and that scares me.
I was wrong about Egwene.
06/02/2010 09:46:43 AM
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BTW, I am the god of Irony. Bow to me. *NM*
06/02/2010 09:47:20 AM
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I think that if there's a real message to take out of this
06/02/2010 02:55:47 PM
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yes she's politically shrewd if completely amoral
06/02/2010 05:03:19 PM
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Re: yes she's politically shrewd if completely amoral
06/02/2010 06:08:40 PM
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In her defense, she has no way of getting in contact with him
06/02/2010 11:28:37 PM
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Re: In her defense, she has no way of getting in contact with him
06/02/2010 11:47:04 PM
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Re: In her defense, she has no way of getting in contact with him
07/02/2010 02:43:13 AM
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Re: In her defense, she has no way of getting in contact with him
07/02/2010 11:13:39 PM
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It really is her most defining quality
06/02/2010 06:27:17 PM
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That was nothing.
06/02/2010 08:48:39 PM
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The only mitigating factor was that she had already dumped Rand at that time
06/02/2010 11:34:45 PM
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Re: The only mitigating factor was that she had already dumped Rand at that time
06/02/2010 11:51:48 PM
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There was a nice beginning - "Cannoli: I was wrong about Egwene"...
06/02/2010 06:42:18 PM
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A point to understand about Egwene as a ruler... (Incoming wall'o'text...
07/02/2010 06:43:43 PM
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Sure, way to convince me. Compare her to two of the most despicable Anglophonic rulers in history
08/02/2010 05:18:55 AM
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I like Egwene.
08/02/2010 10:22:14 AM
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And the greater good always conveniently requires her being in charge or getting more power *NM*
12/02/2010 12:19:05 AM
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Yes, just like for Rand. *NM*
12/02/2010 12:24:57 AM
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Re: Rand goes out of his way to discarge authority to others; Egwene, well hopefully in the future *NM*
13/02/2010 04:20:31 AM
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Ummm... what? When? *NM*
13/02/2010 04:53:50 AM
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Like his Stewards & supporting loyal rulers. *NM*
15/02/2010 02:30:32 PM
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Darlin, Caroline, Elayne, Ituralde, Bashere, Logain, Rhuarc, etc.
15/02/2010 05:57:05 PM
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Oh you mean all those guys he treats like his personal b*tches? *NM*
15/02/2010 06:10:17 PM
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Re: Oh you mean all those guys he treats like his personal b*tches?
16/02/2010 08:10:02 PM
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Well, Egwene has lackeys too!
15/02/2010 08:12:17 PM
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Re: Well, Egwene has lackeys too!
15/02/2010 10:37:50 PM
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And she does not delegate to them. And no, sorting out rank among minions is not delegating power
15/02/2010 11:00:03 PM
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Rand can certainly be domineering, but nowhere near as much as Egwene.
13/02/2010 06:31:15 AM
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right, because she's threatened to hang people who disobey, or bodily thrown people out of her rooms
15/02/2010 06:11:18 PM
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She's in a different environment. What serious challenge has she faced?
15/02/2010 06:54:53 PM
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people like her in real life are not likeable, but they are necessary in society.
08/02/2010 09:55:35 PM
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