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Re: the wise ones. Lord Haart Send a noteboard - 13/02/2010 10:21:55 AM
The Shaido was by far the biggest clan, and I think it had as many Wise ones as at least 4-6 of the other clans. I can't reference this as I don't have the books with me, but that was the impression I got.

At the very least, the Shaido made up 1/3 of Aiel warriors (and all Aiel are warriors) in TFoH/LoC, so I'd not be surprised if there were far fewer channelers than you assume. I'm guessing maybe 1,000 at tops (remember, many can't channel - Perrin's group worked under the assumption that all 500 could, when it was more like half that number).

Also, remember that like the AS, the WO have their own goals and motives. They care nothing for Randland, only that the "remnant of a remnant" is saved, and that it is as large as possible. Even Avihenda puts this goal above almost everything else.

Similarly, the Sea Folk are tied to the seas. Only the Kin, AS and AM are tied to Randland, and have a vested interest in keeping it intact and safe beyond winning TG. The AM are divided between Rand and Taim, and the Kin have not yet shown leadership or political ties, nor weaves of warfare (though as you say, gateways can count for a lot in that regard).

So yes, I agree that especially since TDR (or around then), we've slowly had our esteem of the WT chipped away at (and with good cause). But there is still massive potential for good there, and uniting the tower was the first step in reaching that potential. Egwene has a LONG way to go if the AS are to become truly useful to Randland, but without Egwene as Amyrlin they were heading towards Mesaana's vision of a tower which unknowingly served the DO. Elaida certainly caused Rand substantial troubles (distrust of female channelers [even Cadsuane and Nynaeve], issues [as of yet, not entirely explained] in the BT, not to mention nearly delivering him into the hands of Mesaana herself).

Egwene can still botch things up, but if she plays her cards right, the Tower could play a crucial role in TG. Think of Min's vision of specks of light being swallowed by blackness - Rand will need EVERYONE he can get.
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So what was the point of the White Tower struggle? - 07/02/2010 04:41:58 AM 1799 Views
I think the breaking of the tower was.... - 07/02/2010 07:55:48 AM 763 Views
Nice idea, that does seem to make sense in hindsight. - 07/02/2010 06:18:35 PM 556 Views
Yes, but that isn't the point. - 08/02/2010 04:14:32 AM 646 Views
Re: Yes, but that isn't the point. - 08/02/2010 04:40:52 AM 620 Views
YES!! The SPLIT is important. So why is ENDING the split such a necessary goal? - 08/02/2010 04:55:46 AM 547 Views
Re: YES!! The SPLIT is important. So why is ENDING the split such a necessary goal? - 08/02/2010 02:43:48 PM 654 Views
Re: YES!! The SPLIT is important. So why is ENDING the split such a necessary goal? - 10/02/2010 09:49:59 PM 614 Views
Re: the wise ones. - 13/02/2010 10:21:55 AM 459 Views
They're not the biggest clan... - 13/02/2010 02:20:38 PM 559 Views
Thank you - 15/02/2010 01:24:05 PM 663 Views
No problem. *NM* - 15/02/2010 09:05:11 PM 231 Views
Re: So what was the point of the White Tower struggle? - 07/02/2010 06:14:31 PM 657 Views
Re: The point was that Rand needed the division. - 07/02/2010 08:34:10 PM 606 Views
small disagreement - 07/02/2010 08:42:07 PM 548 Views
Re: small disagreement - 08/02/2010 04:37:03 AM 485 Views
Egwene and Siuan have noted that there are plenty of the new Novices - 15/02/2010 04:22:35 PM 555 Views
For that matter, what is the point of Andor? - 08/02/2010 06:08:32 AM 607 Views
Re: For that matter, what is the point of Andor? - 08/02/2010 03:38:54 PM 555 Views
Especially true if - 08/02/2010 07:16:04 PM 524 Views
But Tar Valon is critical too. - 08/02/2010 07:41:43 PM 570 Views
Really? - 10/02/2010 05:30:02 AM 487 Views
Three women in a boat... - 10/02/2010 09:12:41 PM 530 Views
Nothing is ever given as a location for that boat that I recall. - 11/02/2010 11:54:39 PM 475 Views
So what? This is more or less true, but it has zero relevance to the issue of the Tower. - 10/02/2010 10:13:56 PM 607 Views
Re: So what? This is more or less true, but it has zero relevance to the issue of the Tower. - 12/02/2010 12:43:19 AM 632 Views
In this, I agree with Fionwe. - 13/02/2010 10:31:07 AM 500 Views
Re: So what? This is more or less true, but it has zero relevance to the issue of the Tower. - 15/02/2010 02:23:57 PM 638 Views
Some good points, but I still disagree. - 15/02/2010 06:30:50 PM 528 Views
- 15/02/2010 10:08:48 PM 617 Views
my thoughts - 09/02/2010 12:58:30 PM 717 Views
Belief and order give strength. - 10/02/2010 11:20:01 PM 549 Views
To pad the last few books in order to make Egwene the Amyrlin. - 17/02/2010 05:25:22 PM 505 Views
I can't say I agree with the use of the term "padding". - 17/02/2010 06:07:25 PM 475 Views
Re: I can't say I agree with the use of the term "padding". - 22/02/2010 11:05:44 PM 537 Views
To unite the Tower under competent leadership, of course. - 23/02/2010 04:55:02 AM 977 Views
Does a main plotline HAVE to help defeat the DO? - 26/02/2010 04:11:30 PM 660 Views

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