So what was the point of the White Tower struggle?
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 07/02/2010 04:41:58 AM
How important was the White Tower struggle, truly? Obviously the importance was not in the building, and not so much concerning the special status of the Aes Sedai. Maybe if the world were intact and fully functional, control of the White Tower might mean something, but with Rand and the Seanchan, neither of whom respect that status as such, controlling more than half the known world, what good are the Aes Sedai going to do? Convince the people of the Black Hills to join the fight? Rand, Elayne and Tuon account for every nation south of the Borderlands and west of Shara that is worth a damn. Bringing the Tower to heel is no more than gravy as far as the political situation is concerned – the important stuff is already settled, and tGS hints that Perrin might be taking care of a significant bunch of loose ends on his own.
Really, the significance of the Aes Sedai and the White Tower is grounded entirely in their being made up of female channelers. As such creatures will no doubt be important and necessary in Rand’s struggle, in many different ways and means, you could make the argument that gaining control of, and reuniting the Tower aids this aspect of the fight against the Shadow… or does it? Because when you REALLY look at it, the only people affected by the outcome of the Tower struggle, are the sisters within the Tower themselves. All women NOT embroiled in that conflict are only affected to the extent that they allow the Tower influence over them. Women who are not Aes Sedai are unaffected, and Aes Sedai not involved cannot be punished for their role in the split nor can they gain influence or status from the outcome of a fight with which they had nothing to do.
But surely such women are in the minority, in either numbers or importance, right? I mean, obviously, the most important female channelers for the struggle ahead were all involved, and their fates were tied up with the outcome of the struggle for control and unity in the White Tower…right? Well, let’s examine a list. Who are the top ten women who can channel who are or were in a position to have a serious impact on the struggle against the Shadow in their own right, or through their influence or connections to Rand? In no particular order, I suggest the following: Nynaeve, Moiraine, Elayne, Aviendha, Egwene, Cadsuane, Verin, Alivia, Tuon, Alanna. Of that list of women, seven of them ARE Aes Sedai. But how many were involved in the Tower’s civil war? One. The other women’s significance has little to do with their status as Aes Sedai, and in many cases, with their ability to channel! Almost none of them are significantly invested in the fight for the Tower, and except for that one, do not rely on the Tower in the least for their role in the foreseeable future!
What makes each of them important?
Nynaeve – Her Talent for Healing is suggested to be significant, but she is also a character of formidable will and personality and was portrayed as such long before anyone even knew she could channel. In any event, much of what she has done and most of her qualities have nothing to do with her status as a sister. In fact, you could argue that she only really uses that status to keep the other Aes Sedai in their place. If the Tower did not exist, Nynaeve would still be Nynaeve, and she would not have any reason to need to be Aes Sedai. She’s actually better off withOUT the Tower, especially as the triumphant Amyrlin has expressed a desire to have words with her for her efforts to help the most important person in the world. I don’t see how the Tower resolution can be all that helpful to Nynaeve.
Moiraine - Though she was an Aes Sedai of the old school and fully committed to the Tower, her significance has little to do with that. Whatever the allegiance of her heart, in the grand scheme of things, the Tower was merely an enabling factor that put her on the road to her important role – finding Rand, helping him to the extent that she did, making him suitably suspicious of Aes Sedai in general, plus whatever role she has to play after her return. I think, given the circumstances of her disappearance, she can be assured of having whatever she says taken VERY seriously, and her help accepted completely by Rand, regardless of whether or not the White Tower is properly supportive of her or whether or not her Ajah is outlawed.
Elayne - Still her tomorrow, and she becomes not one bit less important to Rand, and her authority in Andor is not lessened by a hair. Her One Power achievements had little to do with White Tower teaching and if she is to do anything important with ter’angreal, well, the vast majority of those are in possession of Rand or Elayne herself. Though the Tower united under the wrong side might have caused problems for her, she possessed sufficient power in her her own right to blow them off, at least in the short term.
Aviendha - Not an initiate of the Tower, wants nothing to do with the Tower, and would not have ever crossed the radar of a single sister if she had not personal business with a couple of people on this list. In no way can the Tower conflict have the slightest bearing on her, and by extension, her role with Rand.
Egwene - Okay, obviously this is important for her. Take away the Tower, and you have a Dreamer/Dreamwalker whose achievements have been outstripped by a couple of amateurs in the field, the inventor of Traveling who has made no use of it for anything unconnected to the Tower, and a warrior of the Light who called in sick from her first planned battle with a Forsaken. Without the Tower struggle being resolved the way it did, she is a minor member of Rand’s or Nynaeve’s entourage at best, executed or stilled at worst. So plainly the Tower struggle IS important in that it gives her some significance.
Cadsuane - Her MO thus far is to avoid anything to do with the Tower struggle, preferring to concentrate on the key figure in the battle with the Shadow. The one woman with the most experience and first hand knowledge of the White Tower forsakes the Tower to devote her attention to Rand. So much for the importance of the White Tower.
Verin - Only came near the Tower in hopes of shucking her Black Oaths. While the information she delivered will have an important impact, and is sort of inextricably entwined with the Tower, it is still only solving a problem that the White Tower brought about in the first place. No Tower, no Black Ajah. With the Tower in unquestionably hostile hands, maybe Verin has no choice but to give her list to Rand or Cadsuane, so that the Black sisters cannot catch him off-guard, and even if the Seanchan did not show up to make Egwene Amyrlin, and she got sentenced to death or something, she would have probably found some way of informing the hunters of Verin’s data. As for what Verin has done, it has had little to do with the structure and authority of the White Tower providing a safe or crucial framework within which to operate. And she will have no use for the newly united Tower so this one’s a wash, and certainly a victory over Elaida was not crucial to Verin’s contribution.
Alivia - See Aviendha. Her importance has to do with her personal connections and nothing to do with the Tower.
Tuon - Like Aviendha & Alivia, she has nothing to do with the Tower, and thus is unaffected by Egwene’s victory. Her role rests in her connection to Mat and her position as Empress of Seanchan.
Alanna - Among the least independent of the Tower of any sister on this list, her sole significance has to do with her bod to Rand. As this relationship existed prior to the rebels even raising their Amyrlin, it obviously has nothing to do with the Tower and the strife within.
While there is no denying that the split and rebellion in and of themselves diverted the Tower and prevented its interference or stifling influence from obstructing important goals and developments, that has little to do with the outcome, and even with that outcome, the good to be obtained from the rebellion had already been accomplished. When reviewing the important channelers and their roles, it is plain that the sole reason for the “necessity” of the Tower being unified and the rebels’ victory was to give Egwene something significant to do! This makes her entire importance in the series a tautology. Egwene is important because she has to win the war and unite the Tower, which is an important goal, because it will give Egwene significance and power! Take away Egwene and the Tower, and all else goes on just the same!
But let’s say the worst happened, and Elaida struck out and crushed the rebellion before the gates of the Tower, executed Egwene, smashed up the Blue Ajah and made the rest of the sisters swear to her. How does that REALLY affect the other sisters on the list? Given their connections to Rand, they have the wherewithal to remain free of her, and their importance to him and his cause would simply bring about a conflict between him and the Tower that he could not help but win. He has no need of the Tower, no matter what its adherents say. He has sufficient women with credible claims to the title of Aes Sedai to still get whatever benefits he would derived from the support of Aes Sedai. The world is so messed up, with the status quo so distorted that the puppet strings of the White Tower cannot severely hinder or significantly help him in the short term (and let’s face it, with Tarmon Gaidon looming so near, short term is all that matters), and in that short term, overt force and power count for a lot more than hidden strings and manipulation. The successful conclusion of the Tower struggle has not saved anything other than the White Tower itself. The survival of the White Tower gives Rand and world nothing they would not be able to get elsewhere, aside from a potentially formidable obstacle. Increased numbers of supporting Aes Sedai will be meaningless in the fight against the Dark One – what are suggested to be more important thus far are unity and order, and the Tower represents the greatest potential rallying point for those who seek to avoid unity with Rand.
At the best, from what we see so far, all the Tower can really do to help is refrain from getting in the way of Rand or the women he most needs, and if the only gain in the successful outcome of the split is to put someone in the driver's seat who will keep it from smashing itself in a head-to-head contest with Rand, that hardly means anything great for the rest of humanity, and rather argues that the successful removal of Elaida only puts off the day when the Tower itself must be removed for the good of the world.
Merana said it best in Andor when the shattered embassy was preparing to follow Rand to Cairhien – “We need him more than he needs us.” She then prays for a capable Amyrlin to be raised, for she sees that as the only escape from that situation she describes. And that’s what Egwene’s victory makes possible – the Tower escapes the inevitable conflict with Rand to survive and manipulate another day. Whee.
All in all, I have to say this is an important reason to look forward to ToM or aMoL - to see what RJ had in mind for the White Tower that is going to make this nine-book sub-saga worth the space it took within the series. Otherwise, just think! Eliminate Egwene or the Tower from the story, and you eliminate the need for the other! I find it hard to believe that this Panglossian version of WoT could truly be a viable alternative, so I must believe that, like Gollum (in oh so many ways), the Tower "has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over."
Really, the significance of the Aes Sedai and the White Tower is grounded entirely in their being made up of female channelers. As such creatures will no doubt be important and necessary in Rand’s struggle, in many different ways and means, you could make the argument that gaining control of, and reuniting the Tower aids this aspect of the fight against the Shadow… or does it? Because when you REALLY look at it, the only people affected by the outcome of the Tower struggle, are the sisters within the Tower themselves. All women NOT embroiled in that conflict are only affected to the extent that they allow the Tower influence over them. Women who are not Aes Sedai are unaffected, and Aes Sedai not involved cannot be punished for their role in the split nor can they gain influence or status from the outcome of a fight with which they had nothing to do.
But surely such women are in the minority, in either numbers or importance, right? I mean, obviously, the most important female channelers for the struggle ahead were all involved, and their fates were tied up with the outcome of the struggle for control and unity in the White Tower…right? Well, let’s examine a list. Who are the top ten women who can channel who are or were in a position to have a serious impact on the struggle against the Shadow in their own right, or through their influence or connections to Rand? In no particular order, I suggest the following: Nynaeve, Moiraine, Elayne, Aviendha, Egwene, Cadsuane, Verin, Alivia, Tuon, Alanna. Of that list of women, seven of them ARE Aes Sedai. But how many were involved in the Tower’s civil war? One. The other women’s significance has little to do with their status as Aes Sedai, and in many cases, with their ability to channel! Almost none of them are significantly invested in the fight for the Tower, and except for that one, do not rely on the Tower in the least for their role in the foreseeable future!
What makes each of them important?
Nynaeve – Her Talent for Healing is suggested to be significant, but she is also a character of formidable will and personality and was portrayed as such long before anyone even knew she could channel. In any event, much of what she has done and most of her qualities have nothing to do with her status as a sister. In fact, you could argue that she only really uses that status to keep the other Aes Sedai in their place. If the Tower did not exist, Nynaeve would still be Nynaeve, and she would not have any reason to need to be Aes Sedai. She’s actually better off withOUT the Tower, especially as the triumphant Amyrlin has expressed a desire to have words with her for her efforts to help the most important person in the world. I don’t see how the Tower resolution can be all that helpful to Nynaeve.
Moiraine - Though she was an Aes Sedai of the old school and fully committed to the Tower, her significance has little to do with that. Whatever the allegiance of her heart, in the grand scheme of things, the Tower was merely an enabling factor that put her on the road to her important role – finding Rand, helping him to the extent that she did, making him suitably suspicious of Aes Sedai in general, plus whatever role she has to play after her return. I think, given the circumstances of her disappearance, she can be assured of having whatever she says taken VERY seriously, and her help accepted completely by Rand, regardless of whether or not the White Tower is properly supportive of her or whether or not her Ajah is outlawed.
Elayne - Still her tomorrow, and she becomes not one bit less important to Rand, and her authority in Andor is not lessened by a hair. Her One Power achievements had little to do with White Tower teaching and if she is to do anything important with ter’angreal, well, the vast majority of those are in possession of Rand or Elayne herself. Though the Tower united under the wrong side might have caused problems for her, she possessed sufficient power in her her own right to blow them off, at least in the short term.
Aviendha - Not an initiate of the Tower, wants nothing to do with the Tower, and would not have ever crossed the radar of a single sister if she had not personal business with a couple of people on this list. In no way can the Tower conflict have the slightest bearing on her, and by extension, her role with Rand.
Egwene - Okay, obviously this is important for her. Take away the Tower, and you have a Dreamer/Dreamwalker whose achievements have been outstripped by a couple of amateurs in the field, the inventor of Traveling who has made no use of it for anything unconnected to the Tower, and a warrior of the Light who called in sick from her first planned battle with a Forsaken. Without the Tower struggle being resolved the way it did, she is a minor member of Rand’s or Nynaeve’s entourage at best, executed or stilled at worst. So plainly the Tower struggle IS important in that it gives her some significance.
Cadsuane - Her MO thus far is to avoid anything to do with the Tower struggle, preferring to concentrate on the key figure in the battle with the Shadow. The one woman with the most experience and first hand knowledge of the White Tower forsakes the Tower to devote her attention to Rand. So much for the importance of the White Tower.
Verin - Only came near the Tower in hopes of shucking her Black Oaths. While the information she delivered will have an important impact, and is sort of inextricably entwined with the Tower, it is still only solving a problem that the White Tower brought about in the first place. No Tower, no Black Ajah. With the Tower in unquestionably hostile hands, maybe Verin has no choice but to give her list to Rand or Cadsuane, so that the Black sisters cannot catch him off-guard, and even if the Seanchan did not show up to make Egwene Amyrlin, and she got sentenced to death or something, she would have probably found some way of informing the hunters of Verin’s data. As for what Verin has done, it has had little to do with the structure and authority of the White Tower providing a safe or crucial framework within which to operate. And she will have no use for the newly united Tower so this one’s a wash, and certainly a victory over Elaida was not crucial to Verin’s contribution.
Alivia - See Aviendha. Her importance has to do with her personal connections and nothing to do with the Tower.
Tuon - Like Aviendha & Alivia, she has nothing to do with the Tower, and thus is unaffected by Egwene’s victory. Her role rests in her connection to Mat and her position as Empress of Seanchan.
Alanna - Among the least independent of the Tower of any sister on this list, her sole significance has to do with her bod to Rand. As this relationship existed prior to the rebels even raising their Amyrlin, it obviously has nothing to do with the Tower and the strife within.
While there is no denying that the split and rebellion in and of themselves diverted the Tower and prevented its interference or stifling influence from obstructing important goals and developments, that has little to do with the outcome, and even with that outcome, the good to be obtained from the rebellion had already been accomplished. When reviewing the important channelers and their roles, it is plain that the sole reason for the “necessity” of the Tower being unified and the rebels’ victory was to give Egwene something significant to do! This makes her entire importance in the series a tautology. Egwene is important because she has to win the war and unite the Tower, which is an important goal, because it will give Egwene significance and power! Take away Egwene and the Tower, and all else goes on just the same!
But let’s say the worst happened, and Elaida struck out and crushed the rebellion before the gates of the Tower, executed Egwene, smashed up the Blue Ajah and made the rest of the sisters swear to her. How does that REALLY affect the other sisters on the list? Given their connections to Rand, they have the wherewithal to remain free of her, and their importance to him and his cause would simply bring about a conflict between him and the Tower that he could not help but win. He has no need of the Tower, no matter what its adherents say. He has sufficient women with credible claims to the title of Aes Sedai to still get whatever benefits he would derived from the support of Aes Sedai. The world is so messed up, with the status quo so distorted that the puppet strings of the White Tower cannot severely hinder or significantly help him in the short term (and let’s face it, with Tarmon Gaidon looming so near, short term is all that matters), and in that short term, overt force and power count for a lot more than hidden strings and manipulation. The successful conclusion of the Tower struggle has not saved anything other than the White Tower itself. The survival of the White Tower gives Rand and world nothing they would not be able to get elsewhere, aside from a potentially formidable obstacle. Increased numbers of supporting Aes Sedai will be meaningless in the fight against the Dark One – what are suggested to be more important thus far are unity and order, and the Tower represents the greatest potential rallying point for those who seek to avoid unity with Rand.
At the best, from what we see so far, all the Tower can really do to help is refrain from getting in the way of Rand or the women he most needs, and if the only gain in the successful outcome of the split is to put someone in the driver's seat who will keep it from smashing itself in a head-to-head contest with Rand, that hardly means anything great for the rest of humanity, and rather argues that the successful removal of Elaida only puts off the day when the Tower itself must be removed for the good of the world.
Merana said it best in Andor when the shattered embassy was preparing to follow Rand to Cairhien – “We need him more than he needs us.” She then prays for a capable Amyrlin to be raised, for she sees that as the only escape from that situation she describes. And that’s what Egwene’s victory makes possible – the Tower escapes the inevitable conflict with Rand to survive and manipulate another day. Whee.
All in all, I have to say this is an important reason to look forward to ToM or aMoL - to see what RJ had in mind for the White Tower that is going to make this nine-book sub-saga worth the space it took within the series. Otherwise, just think! Eliminate Egwene or the Tower from the story, and you eliminate the need for the other! I find it hard to believe that this Panglossian version of WoT could truly be a viable alternative, so I must believe that, like Gollum (in oh so many ways), the Tower "has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over."
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
So what was the point of the White Tower struggle?
07/02/2010 04:41:58 AM
- 1799 Views
The Tower will likely have some sort of "badass army" moment at the end... or, they'd BETTER
07/02/2010 06:46:51 AM
- 679 Views
Re: The Tower will likely have some sort of "badass army" moment at the end... or, they'd BETTER
08/02/2010 05:43:52 PM
- 555 Views
I think the breaking of the tower was....
07/02/2010 07:55:48 AM
- 762 Views
Yes, but that isn't the point.
08/02/2010 04:14:32 AM
- 646 Views
Re: Yes, but that isn't the point.
08/02/2010 04:40:52 AM
- 618 Views
YES!! The SPLIT is important. So why is ENDING the split such a necessary goal?
08/02/2010 04:55:46 AM
- 547 Views
Re: YES!! The SPLIT is important. So why is ENDING the split such a necessary goal?
08/02/2010 02:43:48 PM
- 654 Views
Re: YES!! The SPLIT is important. So why is ENDING the split such a necessary goal?
10/02/2010 09:49:59 PM
- 614 Views
Re: the wise ones.
13/02/2010 10:21:55 AM
- 458 Views
Re: So what was the point of the White Tower struggle?
07/02/2010 06:14:31 PM
- 656 Views
Re: The point was that Rand needed the division.
07/02/2010 08:34:10 PM
- 606 Views
small disagreement
07/02/2010 08:42:07 PM
- 547 Views
Re: small disagreement
08/02/2010 04:37:03 AM
- 485 Views
Egwene and Siuan have noted that there are plenty of the new Novices
15/02/2010 04:22:35 PM
- 554 Views
Re: So what was the point of the White Tower struggle?
08/02/2010 04:34:52 AM
- 695 Views
Re: So what was the point of the White Tower struggle?
08/02/2010 06:56:01 AM
- 564 Views
Such a resolution could have been a minor plot point like settling Tear or Cairhien
11/02/2010 11:53:41 PM
- 606 Views
Re: Such a resolution could have been a minor plot point like settling Tear or Cairhien
13/02/2010 10:45:06 AM
- 622 Views
Re: So what was the point of the White Tower struggle?
07/02/2010 10:42:27 PM
- 515 Views
These are reasons why the SPLIT is necessary. I was not questioning that.
08/02/2010 04:50:11 AM
- 694 Views
Re: These are reasons why the SPLIT is necessary. I was not questioning that.
08/02/2010 05:47:36 AM
- 566 Views
Re: These are reasons why the SPLIT is necessary. I was not questioning that.
13/02/2010 09:33:04 AM
- 446 Views
For that matter, what is the point of Andor?
08/02/2010 06:08:32 AM
- 607 Views
Re: For that matter, what is the point of Andor?
08/02/2010 03:38:54 PM
- 555 Views
But Tar Valon is critical too.
08/02/2010 07:41:43 PM
- 569 Views
Really?
10/02/2010 05:30:02 AM
- 487 Views
So what? This is more or less true, but it has zero relevance to the issue of the Tower.
10/02/2010 10:13:56 PM
- 607 Views
Re: So what? This is more or less true, but it has zero relevance to the issue of the Tower.
12/02/2010 12:43:19 AM
- 631 Views
Re: So what? This is more or less true, but it has zero relevance to the issue of the Tower.
15/02/2010 02:23:57 PM
- 638 Views
To pad the last few books in order to make Egwene the Amyrlin.
17/02/2010 05:25:22 PM
- 505 Views