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This brings up a very intersting question... Jeordam Send a noteboard - 02/02/2010 09:30:49 PM
Just wanted to make it clear that I'm more strongly weighted towards Graendal, but I edited my original before you read it, I think:

Anyway, I'm strongly in favor of Graendal, but I just thought I'd throw Moghedien out there since, given what we know of Power Levels, it would be consistent with Moghedien being seen as the weakest to get the reaction from Asmodean she would have (ie: "You?" as in disbelief and scorn mixed together. Then "No!" As he is pulled into T'A'R or balefired).


Being....Is Moghedien a Dreamer? Walking around in Tel'aran'rhiod is one thing....Dreamwalking is a total other. Can Moghedien go to the in between place (looks like a starry sky) and walk around? Can she enter another's dreams. Does she have dreams which fortell the future?

If anything...I think this is the one Dreaming-ish type ability that Lanfear had over Moghedien. We actually see that Lanfear was able to enter into Rand's dreams. She subsequently pulled him into the dreamworld, but she was able to get him and pull him in. For the life of me, I don't remember Moghedien being able to do that.

But you bring up a very good question. If someone who is dreaming into TAR , can they open up a gateway into the real world? If so, can they channel out through that gateway into the real world?

I'm going to go with "no" to both questions. We know from Moghedian's own words that the rules of what happens & what can be done in the Dreamworld are a bit different from those who dream their way there and who are there in the flesh.

So lets say that someone is there in the flesh. They open up a gateway to the real world, and attempt to toss a fireball or whatever through. Will it make it? I'm going to go with yes. Because in this instance, the channeling is as a product of the channeler's ability & the one power (which is constant through both reality & dreamworld). If they dreamed up a rock and threw it at someone through the gateway...would it make it? No. Althrough the rock is a product of a person's will, the rock itself only exists inside the dreamworld. [note: this can go into a very good debate if you want...I have a counter-example in my head]

So lets say that someone dreams into TAR . Can they open up a gateway to the real world? Don't know. We've never even seen someone in TAR make a gateway (as there is no need). To make a gateway, the channeler needs to know the place that they are (physically)....for a man...to fold the pattern & drill a hole....for a woman, to make a singularity where one place in the pattern is alike to another. Neither of those will work in the dreamworld, as TAR exists as the place between and connecting every reality. We have seen two major examples of a person entering the dreamworld in the flesh & exiting out. We have never seen a dream-self making a gateway into reality for a flesh person. I don't think that it can be done.

~Jeordam
ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
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So your name is Graendal.... - 01/02/2010 09:18:00 PM 1881 Views
one of the reasons I'm at a loss with her death ... along with the lead-up being clumsy *NM* - 01/02/2010 09:36:29 PM 803 Views
She very well... - 01/02/2010 11:13:50 PM 1174 Views
Exactly how I feel ... to the letter! *NM* - 01/02/2010 11:17:57 PM 655 Views
Re: She very well... - 02/02/2010 08:42:17 AM 1218 Views
Ha! "Graendal actually kills Asmodean". A very bold claim. *NM* - 02/02/2010 10:51:40 AM 699 Views
Bold like saying that water is wet.... - 02/02/2010 05:46:54 PM 798 Views
I am now split with a 80% belief it's Graendal and 20% that it's Moghedien *NM* - 02/02/2010 06:11:47 PM 475 Views
Moghedien.... - 02/02/2010 06:15:41 PM 929 Views
The a'dam doesn't limit your ability to enter T'A'R - 02/02/2010 06:36:26 PM 922 Views
Yeah..... - 02/02/2010 06:46:50 PM 1068 Views
Re: Yeah..... - 02/02/2010 07:42:59 PM 839 Views
This brings up a very intersting question... - 02/02/2010 09:30:49 PM 1096 Views
Re: This brings up a very intersting question... - 02/02/2010 09:57:24 PM 817 Views
Moghedien? Really? - 02/02/2010 07:56:33 PM 936 Views
when was Semirhage in an a'dam? *NM* - 02/02/2010 08:48:27 PM 492 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 02/02/2010 09:03:54 PM 897 Views
Egwene was faintly forkrooted, not heavily. - 02/02/2010 10:24:55 PM 846 Views
It was heavy enough to nullify her ability almost completely by TGS - 02/02/2010 10:38:04 PM 814 Views
That's still extremely faint. - 02/02/2010 11:07:10 PM 840 Views
Re: That's still extremely faint. - 03/02/2010 03:34:06 PM 872 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 03/02/2010 01:02:13 AM 845 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 03/02/2010 03:31:21 PM 1045 Views
The chance that Moggy killed Asmo is actually 0 % - 02/02/2010 09:32:03 PM 936 Views
*nods* - 02/02/2010 09:36:04 PM 758 Views
Well, I completely disagree, but that's another discussion. *NM* - 02/02/2010 07:07:05 PM 445 Views
Yes, I agree. *NM* - 02/02/2010 03:26:13 PM 625 Views
As bad as Sammael's death. *NM* - 03/02/2010 02:00:02 AM 486 Views
The lead up was clumsy because her death scene was rather forced. - 09/02/2010 11:11:21 PM 1001 Views
Yes, pretty much. - 01/02/2010 11:21:31 PM 921 Views
Couple of flaws in that reasoning - 02/02/2010 07:56:35 AM 1211 Views
Graendal already has a massive inverted ward around the palace. - 02/02/2010 03:23:44 PM 973 Views
Come on now.... - 02/02/2010 04:58:34 PM 1095 Views
IMO - 02/02/2010 05:58:10 PM 904 Views
This could go either way.... - 02/02/2010 06:14:21 PM 1043 Views
RE: Strength and Compulsion - 02/02/2010 06:31:13 PM 1043 Views
I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. - 02/02/2010 06:57:11 PM 919 Views
Re: I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. - 02/02/2010 07:51:15 PM 944 Views
Verin was using her angreal when she compelled. *NM* - 02/02/2010 08:00:50 PM 510 Views
Danke for clarification. - 02/02/2010 08:15:39 PM 774 Views
The thing is... - 02/02/2010 09:39:18 AM 915 Views
Its still a game... - 02/02/2010 05:09:42 PM 955 Views
I could buy... - 02/02/2010 07:16:43 PM 876 Views
Please, - 02/02/2010 10:42:00 AM 897 Views
*ha* - 02/02/2010 05:10:41 PM 872 Views
My name is Graendal? My parents will be so confused. - 02/02/2010 02:19:26 PM 861 Views
So what would you say... - 02/02/2010 05:12:09 PM 851 Views
Wow. - 02/02/2010 06:00:11 PM 908 Views
Never underestimate.... - 02/02/2010 06:08:42 PM 812 Views
"Oh, no... Rand is totally going to balefire me!" *NM* - 03/02/2010 08:50:26 PM 453 Views
A conclusion with an explanation built around it. - 02/02/2010 10:22:29 PM 949 Views
Hah! - 02/02/2010 10:38:38 PM 785 Views
I miss Diomedes . *NM* - 02/02/2010 11:07:45 PM 435 Views
So...like the theory of Macro Evolution? People seem to believe that..... - 02/02/2010 11:22:41 PM 975 Views
... - 03/02/2010 01:23:06 AM 868 Views
Ok...I'm just saying... - 03/02/2010 04:00:46 PM 1012 Views
That's ridiculous - 02/02/2010 11:39:41 PM 888 Views
Hold on now.... - 02/02/2010 11:51:32 PM 1043 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 03/02/2010 02:52:07 AM 866 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 03/02/2010 08:59:44 PM 913 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 04/02/2010 04:44:31 AM 833 Views
Your theory breaks down because of something Brandon said. - 03/02/2010 03:49:58 AM 802 Views
Kind of - 03/02/2010 04:10:04 AM 933 Views
I disagree. - 03/02/2010 05:31:39 AM 766 Views
But how many previously unseen weaves have had such huge implications? - 03/02/2010 01:29:15 PM 1052 Views
Two things come to mind... - 03/02/2010 03:50:38 PM 964 Views
I don't really think this is relevant - 03/02/2010 05:03:51 PM 883 Views
There's a difference.... - 03/02/2010 06:01:30 PM 937 Views
I know there is. You're the one who brought up the weaves being picked apart - 03/02/2010 06:37:40 PM 906 Views
*grins* - 03/02/2010 06:42:54 PM 935 Views
But again... - 03/02/2010 06:59:18 PM 849 Views
sure we do - 03/02/2010 07:03:40 PM 797 Views
Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. - 03/02/2010 07:14:24 PM 791 Views
But here's the thing... - 03/02/2010 07:36:42 PM 900 Views
I think we disagree with what "subtle" means here. - 03/02/2010 07:46:20 PM 792 Views
Kerb was more subtle than most, but we've seen subtler. - 04/02/2010 05:16:33 PM 1034 Views
Re: Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. - 03/02/2010 07:37:58 PM 794 Views
... - 03/02/2010 07:42:07 PM 844 Views
Re: ... - 03/02/2010 07:59:26 PM 832 Views
But - 03/02/2010 08:04:27 PM 948 Views
I think it would be obvious if Ituralde was acting different - 03/02/2010 08:18:50 PM 1091 Views
Hrm - 03/02/2010 08:36:12 PM 1014 Views
It happens in WH when they go to tell her that Moridin is N'B - 03/02/2010 08:43:11 PM 876 Views
Thanks *NM* - 03/02/2010 08:47:29 PM 468 Views
Now try and not lynch me... - 03/02/2010 04:08:11 PM 887 Views
But that's not how it happened - 03/02/2010 08:18:59 PM 861 Views

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