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This brings up a very intersting question... Jeordam Send a noteboard - 02/02/2010 09:30:49 PM
Just wanted to make it clear that I'm more strongly weighted towards Graendal, but I edited my original before you read it, I think:

Anyway, I'm strongly in favor of Graendal, but I just thought I'd throw Moghedien out there since, given what we know of Power Levels, it would be consistent with Moghedien being seen as the weakest to get the reaction from Asmodean she would have (ie: "You?" as in disbelief and scorn mixed together. Then "No!" As he is pulled into T'A'R or balefired).


Being....Is Moghedien a Dreamer? Walking around in Tel'aran'rhiod is one thing....Dreamwalking is a total other. Can Moghedien go to the in between place (looks like a starry sky) and walk around? Can she enter another's dreams. Does she have dreams which fortell the future?

If anything...I think this is the one Dreaming-ish type ability that Lanfear had over Moghedien. We actually see that Lanfear was able to enter into Rand's dreams. She subsequently pulled him into the dreamworld, but she was able to get him and pull him in. For the life of me, I don't remember Moghedien being able to do that.

But you bring up a very good question. If someone who is dreaming into TAR , can they open up a gateway into the real world? If so, can they channel out through that gateway into the real world?

I'm going to go with "no" to both questions. We know from Moghedian's own words that the rules of what happens & what can be done in the Dreamworld are a bit different from those who dream their way there and who are there in the flesh.

So lets say that someone is there in the flesh. They open up a gateway to the real world, and attempt to toss a fireball or whatever through. Will it make it? I'm going to go with yes. Because in this instance, the channeling is as a product of the channeler's ability & the one power (which is constant through both reality & dreamworld). If they dreamed up a rock and threw it at someone through the gateway...would it make it? No. Althrough the rock is a product of a person's will, the rock itself only exists inside the dreamworld. [note: this can go into a very good debate if you want...I have a counter-example in my head]

So lets say that someone dreams into TAR . Can they open up a gateway to the real world? Don't know. We've never even seen someone in TAR make a gateway (as there is no need). To make a gateway, the channeler needs to know the place that they are (physically)....for a man...to fold the pattern & drill a hole....for a woman, to make a singularity where one place in the pattern is alike to another. Neither of those will work in the dreamworld, as TAR exists as the place between and connecting every reality. We have seen two major examples of a person entering the dreamworld in the flesh & exiting out. We have never seen a dream-self making a gateway into reality for a flesh person. I don't think that it can be done.

~Jeordam
ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
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So your name is Graendal.... - 01/02/2010 09:18:00 PM 1741 Views
one of the reasons I'm at a loss with her death ... along with the lead-up being clumsy *NM* - 01/02/2010 09:36:29 PM 746 Views
She very well... - 01/02/2010 11:13:50 PM 1052 Views
Exactly how I feel ... to the letter! *NM* - 01/02/2010 11:17:57 PM 604 Views
Re: She very well... - 02/02/2010 08:42:17 AM 1067 Views
Ha! "Graendal actually kills Asmodean". A very bold claim. *NM* - 02/02/2010 10:51:40 AM 644 Views
Bold like saying that water is wet.... - 02/02/2010 05:46:54 PM 696 Views
I am now split with a 80% belief it's Graendal and 20% that it's Moghedien *NM* - 02/02/2010 06:11:47 PM 424 Views
Moghedien.... - 02/02/2010 06:15:41 PM 788 Views
The a'dam doesn't limit your ability to enter T'A'R - 02/02/2010 06:36:26 PM 796 Views
Yeah..... - 02/02/2010 06:46:50 PM 949 Views
Re: Yeah..... - 02/02/2010 07:42:59 PM 735 Views
This brings up a very intersting question... - 02/02/2010 09:30:49 PM 960 Views
Re: This brings up a very intersting question... - 02/02/2010 09:57:24 PM 717 Views
Moghedien? Really? - 02/02/2010 07:56:33 PM 825 Views
when was Semirhage in an a'dam? *NM* - 02/02/2010 08:48:27 PM 430 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 02/02/2010 09:03:54 PM 765 Views
Egwene was faintly forkrooted, not heavily. - 02/02/2010 10:24:55 PM 742 Views
It was heavy enough to nullify her ability almost completely by TGS - 02/02/2010 10:38:04 PM 663 Views
That's still extremely faint. - 02/02/2010 11:07:10 PM 747 Views
Re: That's still extremely faint. - 03/02/2010 03:34:06 PM 790 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 03/02/2010 01:02:13 AM 735 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 03/02/2010 03:31:21 PM 918 Views
The chance that Moggy killed Asmo is actually 0 % - 02/02/2010 09:32:03 PM 816 Views
*nods* - 02/02/2010 09:36:04 PM 656 Views
Well, I completely disagree, but that's another discussion. *NM* - 02/02/2010 07:07:05 PM 405 Views
Yes, I agree. *NM* - 02/02/2010 03:26:13 PM 555 Views
As bad as Sammael's death. *NM* - 03/02/2010 02:00:02 AM 430 Views
Yes, pretty much. - 01/02/2010 11:21:31 PM 815 Views
Couple of flaws in that reasoning - 02/02/2010 07:56:35 AM 1084 Views
Graendal already has a massive inverted ward around the palace. - 02/02/2010 03:23:44 PM 859 Views
Come on now.... - 02/02/2010 04:58:34 PM 974 Views
IMO - 02/02/2010 05:58:10 PM 792 Views
This could go either way.... - 02/02/2010 06:14:21 PM 936 Views
RE: Strength and Compulsion - 02/02/2010 06:31:13 PM 944 Views
I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. - 02/02/2010 06:57:11 PM 816 Views
Re: I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. - 02/02/2010 07:51:15 PM 821 Views
Verin was using her angreal when she compelled. *NM* - 02/02/2010 08:00:50 PM 459 Views
Danke for clarification. - 02/02/2010 08:15:39 PM 670 Views
The thing is... - 02/02/2010 09:39:18 AM 815 Views
Its still a game... - 02/02/2010 05:09:42 PM 832 Views
I could buy... - 02/02/2010 07:16:43 PM 778 Views
Please, - 02/02/2010 10:42:00 AM 780 Views
*ha* - 02/02/2010 05:10:41 PM 751 Views
My name is Graendal? My parents will be so confused. - 02/02/2010 02:19:26 PM 760 Views
So what would you say... - 02/02/2010 05:12:09 PM 740 Views
Wow. - 02/02/2010 06:00:11 PM 804 Views
Never underestimate.... - 02/02/2010 06:08:42 PM 714 Views
"Oh, no... Rand is totally going to balefire me!" *NM* - 03/02/2010 08:50:26 PM 400 Views
A conclusion with an explanation built around it. - 02/02/2010 10:22:29 PM 844 Views
Hah! - 02/02/2010 10:38:38 PM 670 Views
I miss Diomedes . *NM* - 02/02/2010 11:07:45 PM 372 Views
So...like the theory of Macro Evolution? People seem to believe that..... - 02/02/2010 11:22:41 PM 845 Views
... - 03/02/2010 01:23:06 AM 737 Views
Ok...I'm just saying... - 03/02/2010 04:00:46 PM 907 Views
That's ridiculous - 02/02/2010 11:39:41 PM 783 Views
Hold on now.... - 02/02/2010 11:51:32 PM 947 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 03/02/2010 02:52:07 AM 777 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 03/02/2010 08:59:44 PM 782 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 04/02/2010 04:44:31 AM 714 Views
Your theory breaks down because of something Brandon said. - 03/02/2010 03:49:58 AM 712 Views
Kind of - 03/02/2010 04:10:04 AM 800 Views
I disagree. - 03/02/2010 05:31:39 AM 670 Views
But how many previously unseen weaves have had such huge implications? - 03/02/2010 01:29:15 PM 946 Views
Two things come to mind... - 03/02/2010 03:50:38 PM 864 Views
I don't really think this is relevant - 03/02/2010 05:03:51 PM 777 Views
There's a difference.... - 03/02/2010 06:01:30 PM 813 Views
I know there is. You're the one who brought up the weaves being picked apart - 03/02/2010 06:37:40 PM 809 Views
*grins* - 03/02/2010 06:42:54 PM 827 Views
But again... - 03/02/2010 06:59:18 PM 744 Views
sure we do - 03/02/2010 07:03:40 PM 690 Views
Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. - 03/02/2010 07:14:24 PM 676 Views
But here's the thing... - 03/02/2010 07:36:42 PM 789 Views
I think we disagree with what "subtle" means here. - 03/02/2010 07:46:20 PM 715 Views
Kerb was more subtle than most, but we've seen subtler. - 04/02/2010 05:16:33 PM 928 Views
Re: Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. - 03/02/2010 07:37:58 PM 665 Views
... - 03/02/2010 07:42:07 PM 740 Views
Re: ... - 03/02/2010 07:59:26 PM 719 Views
But - 03/02/2010 08:04:27 PM 818 Views
I think it would be obvious if Ituralde was acting different - 03/02/2010 08:18:50 PM 987 Views
Hrm - 03/02/2010 08:36:12 PM 892 Views
It happens in WH when they go to tell her that Moridin is N'B - 03/02/2010 08:43:11 PM 761 Views
Thanks *NM* - 03/02/2010 08:47:29 PM 409 Views
Now try and not lynch me... - 03/02/2010 04:08:11 PM 784 Views
But that's not how it happened - 03/02/2010 08:18:59 PM 775 Views

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