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Come on now.... Jeordam Send a noteboard - 02/02/2010 04:58:34 PM
- Rand was a fair distance from Natrin's Barrow. And I just don't see Graendal weaving a massive inverted ward around the place, as that would take more of the power than she has. I DEFINITELY don't see her strolling around the perimeter placing wards, she's far to decadent for that. Also, the gateway which Rand opened was NOT in sight of Graendal's palace.

First off.....Rand wasn't *that* far away either. The nobleman was able to walk there, talk with Graendal, and walk back in the matter of very little time. He couldn't have been that far out. Let's remember a few things about Graendal. First off...she is a very strong channeler. As per where her strength level sits is up to debate. She wasn't at the top with Lanfear (original), but she was certainly not at the bottom of spectrum with Moghedien either. She's gotta be someplace between Mesaana & Lanfear. Either way...she's got game. Secondly, she has her pinky ring angreal which gives her more than sufficient strength.

As for her being too decadent for walking around and warding the place, lets be serious. Do you think that any of the forsaken, regardless of their personalities, would risk letting someone creap up on them unknown...just because they couldn't stand to set wards by themselves. It is not beyond the relm of possibilities for her to actually take a walk and do it, use a horse, or more in character to have some guys carry her around on one of those chair things. She may be decadent...but she isn't foolish.

- Compulsion that disappears on delving has never been seen or heard of in the series. It's pure speculation at best.

Its just variation on a theme. We have already seen weaves which dissapate upon contact with another weave (Rand & triggering the wards in Illian). And when it comes to channeling...everything is speculation until it happens. We didn't know that a gateway could be forced to remain open with another weave...until it was done. Either way you wanna look at it...its certainly not outside the realm of possible.

- Ramshalan had no idea what Rand intended. At best, he thought Rand was dropping him off around the place to secure support for the throne: "It is the first of many places I will send you... seek those who rule the keep. See if they are willing to support me." Rand acknowledges that Graendal will see through this, but will probably believe part of it at least. There's simply nothing prior to send Ramshalan off that indicates Rand's plan to use the CK + BF.


There doesn't need to be. What's the one thing that Graendal has done this entire time? Stayed hidden. She's not to the point of Moghedien, but she's certainly not out in the open like Be'lal, Rhavin, or Sammael. In fact, none of the female Forsaken were. They were all hiding in one way or another but in a position to effect things (Truth Speaker, inside Aes Sedai agent, random other people, and an elderly nobel woman in Graendal's case). The very fact that Rand sent someone...anyone...out in the middle of no where was enough. Her cover was blown. Remember that very few, if anyone, remembered that place was there. Let alone who lived there. That's good enough. Graendal is not stupid...she knew very well that Rand could just show up. She's not going to be able to hide there. She doesn't need to know that Rand is going to CK + FB the place. All she needed to know was that Rand found about about the place at all.

- If Graendal DID sense the gateway opening, she would have just left instantly. She's the kind of person that either feels safe or unsafe; what was to stop Rand from instantly Balefiring the place, or entering it himself with a bunch of AS?

This is a good point. She very well could have high-tailed it out of there. As for her thinking that he would balefire the entire place....I don't think that anyone would have thought that he would do that. After all, each and every one of the Forsaken know how to use Balefire. And there is absolutely no way to block it. Yet they have rarely busted it out themselves, and never to the same magnitude that Rand does regularly...let alone in this instance. Would she suspect that he would use it? Yes. Would she suspect that he would nuke the entire place? Never.

As for entering it himself with a bunch of AS, definatley a possibility...but he did't. Why she waited around for the guy to show up...I don't know.

What my whole point is this. Her death was off screen...she could live.

~Jeordam
ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
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So your name is Graendal.... - 01/02/2010 09:18:00 PM 1686 Views
one of the reasons I'm at a loss with her death ... along with the lead-up being clumsy *NM* - 01/02/2010 09:36:29 PM 708 Views
She very well... - 01/02/2010 11:13:50 PM 970 Views
Exactly how I feel ... to the letter! *NM* - 01/02/2010 11:17:57 PM 570 Views
Re: She very well... - 02/02/2010 08:42:17 AM 894 Views
Ha! "Graendal actually kills Asmodean". A very bold claim. *NM* - 02/02/2010 10:51:40 AM 609 Views
Bold like saying that water is wet.... - 02/02/2010 05:46:54 PM 614 Views
I am now split with a 80% belief it's Graendal and 20% that it's Moghedien *NM* - 02/02/2010 06:11:47 PM 398 Views
Moghedien.... - 02/02/2010 06:15:41 PM 701 Views
The a'dam doesn't limit your ability to enter T'A'R - 02/02/2010 06:36:26 PM 661 Views
Yeah..... - 02/02/2010 06:46:50 PM 861 Views
Re: Yeah..... - 02/02/2010 07:42:59 PM 652 Views
This brings up a very intersting question... - 02/02/2010 09:30:49 PM 870 Views
Re: This brings up a very intersting question... - 02/02/2010 09:57:24 PM 661 Views
Moghedien? Really? - 02/02/2010 07:56:33 PM 739 Views
when was Semirhage in an a'dam? *NM* - 02/02/2010 08:48:27 PM 398 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 02/02/2010 09:03:54 PM 663 Views
Egwene was faintly forkrooted, not heavily. - 02/02/2010 10:24:55 PM 659 Views
It was heavy enough to nullify her ability almost completely by TGS - 02/02/2010 10:38:04 PM 575 Views
That's still extremely faint. - 02/02/2010 11:07:10 PM 661 Views
Re: That's still extremely faint. - 03/02/2010 03:34:06 PM 705 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 03/02/2010 01:02:13 AM 608 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 03/02/2010 03:31:21 PM 820 Views
The chance that Moggy killed Asmo is actually 0 % - 02/02/2010 09:32:03 PM 735 Views
*nods* - 02/02/2010 09:36:04 PM 569 Views
Well, I completely disagree, but that's another discussion. *NM* - 02/02/2010 07:07:05 PM 377 Views
Yes, I agree. *NM* - 02/02/2010 03:26:13 PM 520 Views
As bad as Sammael's death. *NM* - 03/02/2010 02:00:02 AM 378 Views
Yes, pretty much. - 01/02/2010 11:21:31 PM 714 Views
Couple of flaws in that reasoning - 02/02/2010 07:56:35 AM 995 Views
Graendal already has a massive inverted ward around the palace. - 02/02/2010 03:23:44 PM 765 Views
Come on now.... - 02/02/2010 04:58:34 PM 912 Views
IMO - 02/02/2010 05:58:10 PM 718 Views
This could go either way.... - 02/02/2010 06:14:21 PM 860 Views
RE: Strength and Compulsion - 02/02/2010 06:31:13 PM 866 Views
I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. - 02/02/2010 06:57:11 PM 742 Views
Re: I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. - 02/02/2010 07:51:15 PM 733 Views
Verin was using her angreal when she compelled. *NM* - 02/02/2010 08:00:50 PM 426 Views
Danke for clarification. - 02/02/2010 08:15:39 PM 594 Views
The thing is... - 02/02/2010 09:39:18 AM 721 Views
Its still a game... - 02/02/2010 05:09:42 PM 750 Views
I could buy... - 02/02/2010 07:16:43 PM 698 Views
Please, - 02/02/2010 10:42:00 AM 703 Views
*ha* - 02/02/2010 05:10:41 PM 660 Views
My name is Graendal? My parents will be so confused. - 02/02/2010 02:19:26 PM 680 Views
So what would you say... - 02/02/2010 05:12:09 PM 654 Views
Wow. - 02/02/2010 06:00:11 PM 721 Views
Never underestimate.... - 02/02/2010 06:08:42 PM 638 Views
"Oh, no... Rand is totally going to balefire me!" *NM* - 03/02/2010 08:50:26 PM 365 Views
A conclusion with an explanation built around it. - 02/02/2010 10:22:29 PM 754 Views
Hah! - 02/02/2010 10:38:38 PM 585 Views
I miss Diomedes . *NM* - 02/02/2010 11:07:45 PM 337 Views
So...like the theory of Macro Evolution? People seem to believe that..... - 02/02/2010 11:22:41 PM 751 Views
... - 03/02/2010 01:23:06 AM 657 Views
Ok...I'm just saying... - 03/02/2010 04:00:46 PM 831 Views
That's ridiculous - 02/02/2010 11:39:41 PM 704 Views
Hold on now.... - 02/02/2010 11:51:32 PM 864 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 03/02/2010 02:52:07 AM 691 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 03/02/2010 08:59:44 PM 720 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 04/02/2010 04:44:31 AM 634 Views
Your theory breaks down because of something Brandon said. - 03/02/2010 03:49:58 AM 638 Views
Kind of - 03/02/2010 04:10:04 AM 716 Views
I disagree. - 03/02/2010 05:31:39 AM 590 Views
But how many previously unseen weaves have had such huge implications? - 03/02/2010 01:29:15 PM 865 Views
Two things come to mind... - 03/02/2010 03:50:38 PM 784 Views
I don't really think this is relevant - 03/02/2010 05:03:51 PM 697 Views
There's a difference.... - 03/02/2010 06:01:30 PM 752 Views
I know there is. You're the one who brought up the weaves being picked apart - 03/02/2010 06:37:40 PM 728 Views
*grins* - 03/02/2010 06:42:54 PM 742 Views
But again... - 03/02/2010 06:59:18 PM 665 Views
sure we do - 03/02/2010 07:03:40 PM 607 Views
Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. - 03/02/2010 07:14:24 PM 592 Views
But here's the thing... - 03/02/2010 07:36:42 PM 709 Views
I think we disagree with what "subtle" means here. - 03/02/2010 07:46:20 PM 632 Views
Kerb was more subtle than most, but we've seen subtler. - 04/02/2010 05:16:33 PM 835 Views
Re: Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. - 03/02/2010 07:37:58 PM 584 Views
... - 03/02/2010 07:42:07 PM 659 Views
Re: ... - 03/02/2010 07:59:26 PM 631 Views
But - 03/02/2010 08:04:27 PM 732 Views
I think it would be obvious if Ituralde was acting different - 03/02/2010 08:18:50 PM 885 Views
Hrm - 03/02/2010 08:36:12 PM 812 Views
It happens in WH when they go to tell her that Moridin is N'B - 03/02/2010 08:43:11 PM 677 Views
Thanks *NM* - 03/02/2010 08:47:29 PM 373 Views
Now try and not lynch me... - 03/02/2010 04:08:11 PM 708 Views
But that's not how it happened - 03/02/2010 08:18:59 PM 692 Views

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