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Not even comparable. Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM
formation of the Westlands by influencing Artur Hawkwing.

There is no way he could have known which seeds sprouted, but he went forward planning with his time limit and despite his lack of omniscience, many of his plans bore valuable fruit.


Establishing a secret group of Darkfriends in the White Tower doesn't require precognition at all - how could setting a group of people loyal to you to infiltrate what could be your greatest threat not pay dividends? The worst that could happen would be that the White Tower uncovers the Darkfriends and removes them, but then Ishamael hasn't really lost anything, has he? Besides, he had no far reaching plans that required the existence of the Black Ajah, he simply used them as an available resource in his future plans, when he knew them to be available.

The Seanchan are more in line with actual convoluted, far reaching plans, because Ishamael actually needed to return at the appropriate time. But then again, it requires no precognition either if we accept that Ishamael could simply have gone to Seanchan and influence the Empress and High Blood to commence with the Return. And obviously I don't think that Ishamael could predict that the Seanchan would return just as he wanted them.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 2750 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1481 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1280 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1380 Views
You also ignored... - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1392 Views
and of course, the obvious theme - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 1200 Views
Bah! - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1347 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1312 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1548 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1339 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1276 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 1098 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 1100 Views
that's kind of my whole point - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 1028 Views
Uh, not actually at all really - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1331 Views
*shudders* - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1199 Views
*shrugs* - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1232 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 1138 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1213 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 1059 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1222 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1232 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 1175 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1292 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 1045 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1247 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 1026 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1228 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1217 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 1095 Views
Re: - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1204 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1200 Views
Me, Too. - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 1197 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1313 Views
I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 1149 Views
Re: I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1194 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 1017 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1321 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 1070 Views
Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1259 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 1131 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 1108 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 1138 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 1042 Views
Not really - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 1154 Views
Re: Not really - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1222 Views
Re: Not really - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 1139 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 1103 Views
*NM* - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 605 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 1156 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 1069 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1195 Views
read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 894 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 1007 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 1085 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1225 Views
I don't see any flaws. - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1260 Views
But... - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 1014 Views
Re: But... - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 1152 Views
That is what I thought ... - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 1069 Views
That still doesn't make sense. - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1246 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1282 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 1131 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 1062 Views
Nonsense. - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 1000 Views
Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 1183 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 1167 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 1051 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 1105 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 925 Views
We don't know that, exactly - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 997 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 1075 Views
Seriously? - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 1099 Views
Maybe... - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 1061 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 753 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 693 Views
Ok, in more detail: - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1175 Views
I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 920 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 1100 Views
Thoughts - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 1015 Views
But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 1057 Views
Re: But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 1153 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 993 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 1065 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1230 Views
Indeed... - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1239 Views
Re: Indeed... - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 1060 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 1079 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 1074 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 884 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 1091 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1202 Views
That's not fair - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 1040 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 1017 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 1015 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 1123 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 1188 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 720 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 1187 Views
Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 949 Views
Re: Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 1060 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 1015 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 1064 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 1047 Views
And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 831 Views
Re: And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 1107 Views
Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 1158 Views
Re: Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 1087 Views
Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1197 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 1085 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 1100 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 950 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 1134 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 1084 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 1118 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1159 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 1124 Views
I disagree. - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1510 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 1043 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 1066 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 1118 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 1091 Views
I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1177 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 1124 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 1115 Views
Spot on. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 712 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 1095 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 693 Views
Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 1075 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1206 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 982 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 1077 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 1159 Views

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