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I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans DomA Send a noteboard - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM
You believe Graendal was making these efforts to prevent Rand from finding her.

I don't think it's what she was doing at all. I don't think she had fears he could trace her agents back to her hiding place. I think she was totally confident in her Compulsion. Even Semirhage wasn't pleased to be asked to remove a Compulsion net. Graendal was not foolish to assume Rand had no one who could do it succesfully. Assuming otherwise would mean being shy/overcautious and by this lack of confidence deprive herself of much of her toolbox.

It didn't matter that Kerb knew her hiding place. He wasn't supposed to be able to reveal it. It's a big strike of sheer luck that the man hated Graendal so deeply that a part of his mind was able to spit this information out before he died, because Rand mentionned he could stop her if he knew where she was.

Graendal didn't fear that Rand found out some of her agents like Kerb - anyone who can delve could figure out she's compelled this or that person.

Graendal was under orders to frustrate Rand and increase his despair.

She let him catch a Councilor. He thinks he can track down the others and have them elect a new King, but she gets a few assassinated. Not all of them - he would have abandonned this solution immediately and think of something else. No, she killed just a few so he expanded the efforts to find them and it's in the end fruitless, more and more frustrating for him, more and more a waste of time and effort. Wherever he turned, Graendal seemed everywhere and more and more he would have gotten paranoid, wondering if there was a point in attempting anything, since anyone could be one of her pawns... Before long, he would have started wondering if he could actually trust Ituralde and his men. Had he delved some of them, including Ituralde, he would no longer have trusted these men...

She let him catch Milisair and get useless clues about the King, then she made Milisair vanish. Before long Rand would have tried to locate her, and it would have lead to a dead end: she's been assassinated (only to convince Rand she could have revealed something, but he lost her before she could). Then there was Kerb, but even if he tracked him down as Milisair's assassin, this would have lead nowhere, or on yet another false trail. Rand would have lost his time.


And the "big glitch" of Graendal's death aside (a course of events she could not foresee for all sort of reasons, including that Rand suddenly changed and did something that days ago would have been unthinkable to him and out of character), her plans worked, and in the typical Graendal way it was all extremely economical as far as the level of active efforts from her was concerned). Rand did get totally frustrated with the Domani situation, gave up and left. A success, if not for the little bug that thanks to Semirhage Rand suddenly started playing the game like the Forsaken themselves, with none of the usual restraints of Lightsiders, and he used a tactic even the Shadow abandonned during the WOP as too dangerous... The last thing Graendal would have expected is LTT to make massive use of balefire, with the Pattern already weakened.
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 2732 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1467 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1266 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1366 Views
You also ignored... - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1375 Views
and of course, the obvious theme - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 1183 Views
Bah! - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1333 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1300 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1532 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1330 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1266 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 1086 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 1085 Views
that's kind of my whole point - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 1017 Views
Uh, not actually at all really - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1320 Views
*shudders* - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1185 Views
*shrugs* - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1224 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 1120 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1208 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 1048 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1214 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1215 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 1160 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1278 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 1033 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1226 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 1011 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1219 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1200 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 1076 Views
Re: - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1189 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1189 Views
Me, Too. - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 1184 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1298 Views
I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 1134 Views
Re: I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1181 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 1000 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1303 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 1055 Views
Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1243 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 1114 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 1089 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 1126 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 1034 Views
Not really - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 1135 Views
Re: Not really - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1198 Views
Re: Not really - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 1121 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 1087 Views
*NM* - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 600 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 1148 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 1052 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1180 Views
read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 882 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 999 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 1072 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1212 Views
I don't see any flaws. - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1250 Views
But... - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 1005 Views
Re: But... - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 1145 Views
That is what I thought ... - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 1056 Views
That still doesn't make sense. - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1237 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1270 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 1121 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 1050 Views
Nonsense. - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 987 Views
Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 1165 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 1148 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 1037 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 1092 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 911 Views
We don't know that, exactly - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 984 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 1063 Views
Seriously? - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 1085 Views
Maybe... - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 1050 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 748 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 690 Views
Ok, in more detail: - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1167 Views
I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 904 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 1082 Views
Thoughts - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 1003 Views
But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 1043 Views
Re: But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 1139 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 983 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 1056 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1218 Views
Indeed... - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1229 Views
Re: Indeed... - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 1051 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 1069 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 1053 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 869 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 1084 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1194 Views
That's not fair - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 1030 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 1009 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 1003 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 1107 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 1170 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 714 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 1169 Views
Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 939 Views
Re: Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 1052 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 1004 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 1051 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 1036 Views
And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 821 Views
Re: And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 1086 Views
Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 1145 Views
Re: Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 1074 Views
Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1179 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 1078 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 1088 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 940 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 1122 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 1070 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 1107 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1149 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 1105 Views
I disagree. - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1502 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 1028 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 1057 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 1102 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 1077 Views
I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1165 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 1110 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 1098 Views
Spot on. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 705 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 1082 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 688 Views
Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 1062 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1196 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 969 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 1057 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 1143 Views

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