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Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Skeeve the Great Send a noteboard - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM
But you can. When Tamra died, she was delved, and they said it was natural (actually, the Power killed her, but they made it seem natural and the Delving revealed it so). Siuan certainly states that the Delving occurred. Similarly, Tamra Delves Gitara.

First you are making argument based on Vandene's death. Now you are talking about Tamra? Hmmm...
Let me clarify, the Delving argument. I think you certainly can Delve dead person and see that he's actually dead. As a side effect, you may see the organ damages, broken bones, etc. But I seriously doubt, you can Delve the poison. Especially after several hours from the moment of death. Maybe some sort of poisoning. But definitely not all of them. Poison tends to disappear from the body even after the death.

Keep saying that with your fingers covering your ears. The evidence shows to the contrary.

What evidence? Your far fetched arguments based on unbelivable reasoning are not evidence.
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 2719 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene Etzel - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1451 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1247 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... Etzel - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1345 Views
You also ignored... randfandom - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1356 Views
and of course, the obvious theme Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 1164 Views
Bah! fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1318 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS Etzel - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1278 Views
I think playing too many games just messes up with the integrety and solidness of the books ... amirebram - 26/01/2010 09:46:16 PM 2737 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1516 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1313 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. Underwood - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1254 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 1067 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? beetnemesis - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 1067 Views
that's kind of my whole point darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 1003 Views
Uh, not actually at all really Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1302 Views
*shudders* Yondaime - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1171 Views
*shrugs* darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1205 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work beetnemesis - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 1103 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1196 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? Rurouni_Kenshin - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 1024 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? Yondaime - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1202 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? Sidious - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1198 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? Rurouni_Kenshin - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 1142 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1264 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 1016 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1207 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 990 Views
Moiraine probably learned it while researching with Adealas and Vandene. *NM* Gher - 26/01/2010 04:57:09 PM 831 Views
Sidious - 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1202 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1179 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 1062 Views
Re: RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1176 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1168 Views
Me, Too. The Name With No Man - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 1161 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. Sidious - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1283 Views
I believe she's dead Sareitha Sedai - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 1118 Views
Re: I believe she's dead Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1165 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone Sareitha Sedai - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 985 Views
Besides, if it wasn't Graendal, it implies that she knew of Rand's plan, which is not feasible *NM* Shannow - 26/01/2010 02:01:41 PM 621 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1288 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! Underwood - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 1039 Views
Stop passing judgments... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1228 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched Sidious - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 1100 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 1072 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 1103 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 1020 Views
Not really Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 1118 Views
Re: Not really fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1172 Views
Re: Not really Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 1105 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 1068 Views
*NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 592 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them beetnemesis - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 1133 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 1034 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place Sidious - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1162 Views
read the whole quote darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 872 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 984 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. darius_sedai - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 1058 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1197 Views
I don't see any flaws. Skeeve the Great - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1237 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 993 Views
Re: But... Skeeve the Great - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 1132 Views
That is what I thought ... Yondaime - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 1030 Views
That still doesn't make sense. fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1222 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. Yondaime - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1256 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 1105 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! Yondaime - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 1030 Views
Nonsense. Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 971 Views
Dude, read what I said please... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 1147 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 1132 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself darius_sedai - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 1023 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot Yondaime - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 1075 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 897 Views
We don't know that, exactly Yondaime - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 966 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 1046 Views
Seriously? Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 1071 Views
Maybe... Etzel - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 1033 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 740 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 681 Views
Ok, in more detail: Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1148 Views
I'm tired of making this point... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 888 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... Syraelle - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 1066 Views
Thoughts Heiko - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 986 Views
But that means she's dead Skeeve the Great - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 1024 Views
Re: But that means she's dead Heiko - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 1122 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 970 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. Syraelle - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 1041 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1202 Views
Indeed... Etzel - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1218 Views
Re: Indeed... Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 1036 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 1056 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Underwood - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 1039 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 855 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 1069 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1176 Views
That's not fair Yondaime - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 1017 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 995 Views
Does anybody have a link to it? (nothing on Google). I'm intrigued. *NM* Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 08:27:13 AM 636 Views
It was on Wotmania. Someone copied all the theories, but I don't recall whom. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 08:31:00 AM 767 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 981 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 1089 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 1138 Views
Re: So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:05:21 AM 1170 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 709 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 1152 Views
Not even comparable. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 925 Views
Re: Not even comparable. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 1038 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 991 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 1036 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? Fanatic-Templar - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 1023 Views
And, just to double post: Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 806 Views
Re: And, just to double post: RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 1071 Views
Nice answer. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 1127 Views
Re: Nice answer. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 1060 Views
Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1165 Views
Re: Hilarious. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 1066 Views
Re: Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 1069 Views
Re: Hilarious. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 925 Views
Re: Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 1105 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 1050 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. Etzel - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 1090 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1133 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... Etzel - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 1095 Views
I disagree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1483 Views
I will stop our discussion here; the posts are already pushed too far to the right of my display. *NM* Etzel - 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM 565 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? Fanatic-Templar - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 1017 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Skeeve the Great - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 1040 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 1090 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Skeeve the Great - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 1063 Views
I don't see a flaw rAndy aL - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1150 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw Underwood - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 1095 Views
Yup, I'm tired of seeing arguments that ignore the need to back up their own claims. Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 05:47:16 PM 1060 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. TheUltimateReality - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 1082 Views
Spot on. *NM* Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 698 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans DomA - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 1072 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 681 Views
Compulsion is limited Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 1044 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1181 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited DomA - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 945 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. taura-tierno - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 1041 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. Libby - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 1128 Views
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