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Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM
We never saw his corpse and Shai'tan never confirmed his death. Therefore, he must be alive.


Actually, of all the Forsaken only Ishamael has left a corpse. Aginor, Balthamel, Be'lal, Lanfear, Rahvin, Sammael, Semirhage, Asmodean and Osan'gar didn't.

Maybe at Tarmon Gai'don we'll face 13 Chosen :P


I seem to recall that Balthamel had fungus and stuff growing out of his, and didn't Rand wake up in the ashes and rags of Aginor's corpse?
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 2702 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene Etzel - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1400 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1201 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... Etzel - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1288 Views
You also ignored... randfandom - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1300 Views
and of course, the obvious theme Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 1098 Views
Bah! fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1258 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS Etzel - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1221 Views
I think playing too many games just messes up with the integrety and solidness of the books ... amirebram - 26/01/2010 09:46:16 PM 2681 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1461 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1258 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. Underwood - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1200 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 1003 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? beetnemesis - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 1008 Views
that's kind of my whole point darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 948 Views
Uh, not actually at all really Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1247 Views
*shudders* Yondaime - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1107 Views
*shrugs* darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1150 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work beetnemesis - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 1042 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1147 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? Rurouni_Kenshin - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 974 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? Yondaime - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1147 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? Sidious - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1143 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? Rurouni_Kenshin - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 1085 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1187 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 961 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1147 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 938 Views
Moiraine probably learned it while researching with Adealas and Vandene. *NM* Gher - 26/01/2010 04:57:09 PM 800 Views
Sidious - 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1146 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1119 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 1010 Views
Re: RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1117 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1115 Views
Me, Too. The Name With No Man - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 1100 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. Sidious - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1225 Views
I believe she's dead Sareitha Sedai - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 1068 Views
Re: I believe she's dead Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1105 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone Sareitha Sedai - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 936 Views
Besides, if it wasn't Graendal, it implies that she knew of Rand's plan, which is not feasible *NM* Shannow - 26/01/2010 02:01:41 PM 600 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1238 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! Underwood - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 977 Views
Stop passing judgments... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1178 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched Sidious - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 1071 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 1014 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 1054 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 967 Views
Not really Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 1078 Views
Re: Not really fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1113 Views
Re: Not really Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 1052 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 1049 Views
*NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 574 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them beetnemesis - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 1082 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 968 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place Sidious - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1108 Views
read the whole quote darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 820 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 942 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. darius_sedai - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 1004 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1171 Views
I don't see any flaws. Skeeve the Great - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1191 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 939 Views
Re: But... Skeeve the Great - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 1073 Views
That is what I thought ... Yondaime - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 985 Views
That still doesn't make sense. fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1162 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. Yondaime - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1194 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 1054 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! Yondaime - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 980 Views
Nonsense. Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 915 Views
Dude, read what I said please... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 1094 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 1083 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself darius_sedai - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 972 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot Yondaime - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 1017 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 841 Views
We don't know that, exactly Yondaime - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 916 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 990 Views
Seriously? Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 1019 Views
Maybe... Etzel - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 972 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 717 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 651 Views
Ok, in more detail: Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1099 Views
I'm tired of making this point... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 839 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... Syraelle - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 1017 Views
Thoughts Heiko - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 932 Views
But that means she's dead Skeeve the Great - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 1001 Views
Re: But that means she's dead Heiko - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 1077 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 916 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. Syraelle - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 1018 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1140 Views
Indeed... Etzel - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1163 Views
Re: Indeed... Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 982 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 1011 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Underwood - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 988 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 803 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 1018 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1113 Views
That's not fair Yondaime - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 968 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 946 Views
Does anybody have a link to it? (nothing on Google). I'm intrigued. *NM* Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 08:27:13 AM 610 Views
It was on Wotmania. Someone copied all the theories, but I don't recall whom. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 08:31:00 AM 747 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 925 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 1036 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 1078 Views
Re: So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:05:21 AM 1109 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 688 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 1095 Views
Not even comparable. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 872 Views
Re: Not even comparable. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 993 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 937 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 979 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? Fanatic-Templar - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 968 Views
And, just to double post: Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 749 Views
Re: And, just to double post: RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 1018 Views
Nice answer. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 1075 Views
Re: Nice answer. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 1008 Views
Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1102 Views
Re: Hilarious. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 1026 Views
Re: Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 1014 Views
Re: Hilarious. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 863 Views
Re: Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 1054 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 1001 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. Etzel - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 1027 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1083 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... Etzel - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 1047 Views
I disagree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1425 Views
I will stop our discussion here; the posts are already pushed too far to the right of my display. *NM* Etzel - 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM 543 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? Fanatic-Templar - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 974 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Skeeve the Great - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 987 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 1039 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Skeeve the Great - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 1019 Views
I don't see a flaw rAndy aL - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1094 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw Underwood - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 1015 Views
Yup, I'm tired of seeing arguments that ignore the need to back up their own claims. Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 05:47:16 PM 1012 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. TheUltimateReality - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 1024 Views
Spot on. *NM* Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 679 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans DomA - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 1021 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 660 Views
Compulsion is limited Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 995 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1120 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited DomA - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 885 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. taura-tierno - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 991 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. Libby - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 1079 Views
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