Active Users:2618 Time:22/01/2025 11:18:39 PM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place Sidious Send a noteboard - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM
The arguments for her death aren't convincing. They all seem to rely on the magnitude of the balefire stream as evidence that she could not have escaped it and the vanishing of her Compulsion as evidence that she was erased from existence. Neither of these present air-tight support for this conclusion.


Reversal of Compulsion is pretty airtight. The Compulsion disappeared at that exact moment. From what we know of channeling, the only possibility was that Graendal was balefired. The only possibility to escape this was that Graendal was not the one who compelled him - but she already told Sammael she would not teach Compulsion to anyone.


that's a pretty big stretch to "would not teach Compulsion to anyone"


"If you think I will teach them Compulsion, erase it from your mind."

Not a big stretch at all, actually.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
Reply to message
Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 2713 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene Etzel - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1419 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1225 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... Etzel - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1312 Views
You also ignored... randfandom - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1323 Views
and of course, the obvious theme Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 1128 Views
Bah! fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1282 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS Etzel - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1246 Views
I think playing too many games just messes up with the integrety and solidness of the books ... amirebram - 26/01/2010 09:46:16 PM 2703 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1485 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1287 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. Underwood - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1220 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 1029 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? beetnemesis - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 1033 Views
that's kind of my whole point darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 966 Views
Uh, not actually at all really Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1271 Views
*shudders* Yondaime - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1132 Views
*shrugs* darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1171 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work beetnemesis - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 1067 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1167 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? Rurouni_Kenshin - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 997 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? Yondaime - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1170 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? Sidious - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1163 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? Rurouni_Kenshin - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 1110 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1211 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 983 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1169 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 962 Views
Moiraine probably learned it while researching with Adealas and Vandene. *NM* Gher - 26/01/2010 04:57:09 PM 811 Views
Sidious - 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1171 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1142 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 1029 Views
Re: RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1140 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1135 Views
Me, Too. The Name With No Man - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 1122 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. Sidious - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1245 Views
I believe she's dead Sareitha Sedai - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 1087 Views
Re: I believe she's dead Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1130 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone Sareitha Sedai - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 961 Views
Besides, if it wasn't Graendal, it implies that she knew of Rand's plan, which is not feasible *NM* Shannow - 26/01/2010 02:01:41 PM 608 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1255 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! Underwood - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 1004 Views
Stop passing judgments... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1204 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched Sidious - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 1083 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 1040 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 1074 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 988 Views
Not really Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 1094 Views
Re: Not really fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1133 Views
Re: Not really Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 1070 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 1055 Views
*NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 583 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them beetnemesis - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 1110 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 991 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place Sidious - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1136 Views
read the whole quote darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 844 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 963 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. darius_sedai - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 1025 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1181 Views
I don't see any flaws. Skeeve the Great - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1209 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 965 Views
Re: But... Skeeve the Great - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 1104 Views
That is what I thought ... Yondaime - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 1001 Views
That still doesn't make sense. fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1191 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. Yondaime - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1219 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 1075 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! Yondaime - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 1004 Views
Nonsense. Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 934 Views
Dude, read what I said please... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 1116 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 1098 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself darius_sedai - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 991 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot Yondaime - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 1041 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 865 Views
We don't know that, exactly Yondaime - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 934 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 1015 Views
Seriously? Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 1037 Views
Maybe... Etzel - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 993 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 726 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 658 Views
Ok, in more detail: Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1120 Views
I'm tired of making this point... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 859 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... Syraelle - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 1038 Views
Thoughts Heiko - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 953 Views
But that means she's dead Skeeve the Great - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 1013 Views
Re: But that means she's dead Heiko - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 1097 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 939 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. Syraelle - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 1028 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1172 Views
Indeed... Etzel - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1187 Views
Re: Indeed... Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 1005 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 1031 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Underwood - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 1010 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 824 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 1035 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1139 Views
That's not fair Yondaime - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 993 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 967 Views
Does anybody have a link to it? (nothing on Google). I'm intrigued. *NM* Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 08:27:13 AM 621 Views
It was on Wotmania. Someone copied all the theories, but I don't recall whom. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 08:31:00 AM 754 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 948 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 1054 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 1112 Views
Re: So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:05:21 AM 1132 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 694 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 1116 Views
Not even comparable. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 889 Views
Re: Not even comparable. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 1010 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 960 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 999 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? Fanatic-Templar - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 989 Views
And, just to double post: Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 769 Views
Re: And, just to double post: RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 1041 Views
Nice answer. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 1099 Views
Re: Nice answer. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 1028 Views
Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1125 Views
Re: Hilarious. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 1045 Views
Re: Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 1039 Views
Re: Hilarious. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 885 Views
Re: Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 1073 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 1018 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. Etzel - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 1053 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1106 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... Etzel - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 1062 Views
I disagree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1447 Views
I will stop our discussion here; the posts are already pushed too far to the right of my display. *NM* Etzel - 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM 554 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? Fanatic-Templar - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 993 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Skeeve the Great - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 1008 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 1054 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Skeeve the Great - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 1042 Views
I don't see a flaw rAndy aL - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1115 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw Underwood - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 1041 Views
Yup, I'm tired of seeing arguments that ignore the need to back up their own claims. Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 05:47:16 PM 1036 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. TheUltimateReality - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 1048 Views
Spot on. *NM* Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 685 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans DomA - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 1040 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 671 Views
Compulsion is limited Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 1008 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1139 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited DomA - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 909 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. taura-tierno - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 1007 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. Libby - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 1095 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes