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Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention Cannoli Send a noteboard - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM
Even Angelmar? Even Hurin? On a purely clinical basis, I agree that the army has shown little in the way of good faith towards Rand - but that's only considering half the equation.
And the only half worth considering.

The Borderlanders have been protecting Randland for a Millennia. Finally, the Dragon is reborn and they expect some support, but until the end of KoD, there is none. Instead, they hear about more trouble to the south - the False Dragon Taim who had killed thousands of Saldeans has been made the HEAD of a legion of insane male channellers, all by order of the Dragon, the man they are relying on. The White Tower is split and offers no support, the other countries are reeling from the Seanchan and Aiel invasions, so isn't it logical for the Borderlanders to assume that the real threat isn't in Trolloc hordes (especially if 50 channelers can kill 100,000 Trollocs a la KoD), but rather in the dissension and division to the south.
I fully understand this, and have justified their position at length elsewhere. But if we have to excuse their ignorance, we have to give Rand the same benefit. He has no more way of knowing their good intentions than they have of knowing his.

If Rand was completely sane, he would immediately see this. But his astrologically-proportioned ego and paranoia are blinding him.
He is the one indispensible figure in the struggle against the Shadow. His ego is not out of proportion when this fact is taken into consideration. And it isn't paranoia if they really ARE out to get you. Everywhere Rand turns, people are lashing out at him in favor of their own interests. He gave the Borderlanders a chance. He owes them no more than that.

So instead of at least asking Hurin to bring him more information, he considers destroying an entire city and army camp. Not everyone in that camp is even a soldier - many are cooks, cleaners, wives (who we are told accompany their husbands in the case of Saldea), children, who have all been led their by trusted monarchs who have never done wrong by them.
Sucks to be them. It does not matter how trustworthy an individual is - if they lead you wrong, you still suffer the consequences. The German military had never been "done wrong" by their political leadership up until World War Two. Should they be excused their participation in the atrocities they committed? You don't get a pass for blindly following a leader when you step off a cliff, and people who decide to follow an army have to accept the risks that come with it. Rand did not invite any of them to come, and he is not responsible for their safety. Rather, it is the obligation of the rulers who choose to hide behind the skirts of all thos cooks and wives, rather than come to meet Rand in person and risk their own skins.

For Rand to jump instantly to feeling distrust, anger and fear towards the Borderlanders is more than just disconcerting.
Given all he has been through, and the degrees of betrayal and letdown he has experienced, NOT reacting that way would require superhuman virtue and tolerance.
Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1804 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1216 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1209 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1224 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1136 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 1043 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1122 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 1037 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 1027 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 1003 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 1002 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 952 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 991 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 972 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1094 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 993 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 1096 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 1010 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 1067 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 1002 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 1066 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 960 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 1098 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1100 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 1059 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1138 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 943 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 1088 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 527 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 995 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 1009 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 972 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 533 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 938 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 528 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 971 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 927 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 1072 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 1035 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 1031 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 1029 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 1036 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 1014 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 1077 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 967 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 1073 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 915 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 1013 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 992 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 1013 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 1016 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 940 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 1027 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 994 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 913 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 1072 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 1033 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 1037 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 971 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 1005 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 912 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 929 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1105 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 935 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 936 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 1035 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 1005 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 995 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 1069 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 917 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 969 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 1031 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 949 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 1105 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 1074 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 999 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 1033 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 934 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 1069 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 1011 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 1014 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 951 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 1025 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1205 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1339 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 912 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 945 Views

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