Wheel of Time Messageboard: Hmm... by Sidious

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Hmm... Sidious Send a noteboard - 18/01/2010 11:21:41 AM

Certain fragmentary manuscripts, largely forgotten, contain tantalizing hints about the nature and use of circles in the Age of Legends, but unfortunately only hints. According to what the circle was intended to achieve, members were recruited depending on their strengths in the Five Powers while the leader was chosen more for skill. It also seems that certain balances of male with female were considered best for certain tasks, and also certain sizes of circles. A circle of seventy-two may have been the largest and most powerful combination, but it was not always the best for the desired results. Some tasks were best accomplished by a circle of one man and one woman, despite its limited strength, while others were more efficiently done with greater numbers. The details remain lost in the ruins of the Age of Legends, although it is possible that there may be sources hidden away in the library of the White Tower.

Its pretty clear that

a) Smaller circles could sometimes do better than a circle of 72.

b) Individual member's strengths in the power as well as the skill of the leaders mattered a lot.

Given the nature of the Seals, I'd bet they wanted thirteen AS strongest in Spirit, and also extraordinarily skilled. That must be a sufficiently rare combination as to exclude the strongest women.

Weaker women like Sorilea have shown skill, yes, but nowhere close to what even women like Egwene show, and I believe that was the minimum level of strength they considered for inclusion in the circle.

I'd bet on Lews Therin using all five powers to seal the Bore. Besides that, I don't think that skill would be a factor in choosing the women involved - only the leader needs skill, not the members of the circle. The prerequisite would have been high strength and at least average strength in all of the Powers, which in its self is very rare. That way, Lews Therin could draw on any threads without that woman fatiguing too quickly.

I do wonder how he managed to do it without women. Some things are impossible if you don't include men and women, and considering the men didn't link, it's strange that they could do it alone.

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LTT and the bore. Datakim - 16/01/2010 02:50:34 AM 1421 Views

I think there is a scene in KoD or CoT Ryan - 16/01/2010 02:57:13 AM 719 Views

Re: I think there is a scene in KoD or CoT Datakim - 16/01/2010 03:23:14 AM 737 Views

I always thought the scene with Cadsuane an empty threat... Voscaia Sedai - 16/01/2010 12:28:17 PM 644 Views

It's in KoD, but I don't know exactly what it's got to do with this? darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 06:51:37 AM 568 Views

Re: It's in KoD, but I don't know exactly what it's got to do with this? Ryan - 19/01/2010 05:13:26 AM 570 Views

You'll need to provide the quote then ... otherwise I'm not sure what you are talking about darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 06:14:20 AM 509 Views

It had to be a circle of six men and six women... fionwe1987 - 16/01/2010 03:18:16 AM 678 Views

there is no such thing as a circle of 6 and 6 darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 03:35:17 AM 595 Views

Re: It had to be a circle of six men and six women... Datakim - 16/01/2010 03:37:49 AM 662 Views

Here's the quote... fionwe1987 - 16/01/2010 06:02:49 AM 713 Views

Re: Here's the quote... Datakim - 16/01/2010 04:00:11 PM 613 Views

I think it's more like a woman of Sorilea's strength than Nynaeve's that he worried about darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:19:24 PM 550 Views

Dude, you seem to not read what is written... fionwe1987 - 16/01/2010 07:28:27 PM 613 Views

Hmm... Sidious - 18/01/2010 11:21:41 AM 547 Views

It could be that the Pattern Made LPD a Ta'varen for a period of time... MightyYT - 16/01/2010 04:03:14 AM 572 Views

I think... Etzel - 16/01/2010 11:31:18 AM 708 Views

Re: I think... Datakim - 16/01/2010 01:27:40 PM 656 Views

In my view... Etzel - 16/01/2010 01:50:03 PM 518 Views

Re: In my view... Datakim - 16/01/2010 02:11:20 PM 525 Views

We know... Etzel - 16/01/2010 02:43:41 PM 646 Views

Its presented as fact Ryan - 16/01/2010 03:00:33 PM 530 Views

Here is a quote by RJ Etzel - 16/01/2010 03:10:28 PM 567 Views

Re: Here is a quote by RJ Datakim - 16/01/2010 03:26:13 PM 607 Views

In my opinion Etzel - 16/01/2010 03:51:02 PM 510 Views

RJ was as slippery as an AS! darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:31:02 PM 523 Views

Re: RJ was as slippery as an AS! Ryan - 18/01/2010 06:09:40 AM 481 Views

RJ could be tricky, true... Etzel - 19/01/2010 02:56:05 PM 489 Views

RJ changed his mind about a lot of stuff throughout the series darius_sedai - 22/01/2010 06:35:09 PM 527 Views

Re: We know... Datakim - 16/01/2010 03:17:54 PM 594 Views

It's in any case clear... Etzel - 16/01/2010 03:27:49 PM 498 Views

Re: It's in any case clear... Datakim - 16/01/2010 03:44:33 PM 550 Views

I don't think Etzel - 16/01/2010 03:56:25 PM 544 Views

The question is how many people were still alive? Ryan - 18/01/2010 06:19:49 AM 577 Views

Indeed. *NM* Etzel - 19/01/2010 02:47:58 PM 204 Views

Did you read my second post? *NM* fionwe1987 - 16/01/2010 03:42:23 PM 319 Views

I spent a lot of time thinking on the population issue too. I think it was a matter of ... amirebram - 18/01/2010 07:51:31 PM 597 Views

My Thoughts Nolan - 16/01/2010 09:43:33 PM 519 Views

Wow, that's an interesting point. It's even more signnificant since T'A'R is supposed to ... amirebram - 18/01/2010 07:36:35 PM 475 Views

The women needed to balance the men Cannoli - 18/01/2010 12:12:27 PM 594 Views

What if Rand usesTP to off the DO? super nova - 22/01/2010 05:54:13 PM 516 Views

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<quote id="71586">
<quote id="71112">Certain fragmentary manuscripts, largely forgotten, contain tantalizing hints about the nature and use of circles in the Age of Legends, but unfortunately only hints. According to what the circle was intended to achieve, members were recruited depending on their strengths in the Five Powers while the leader was chosen more for skill. It also seems that certain balances of male with female were considered best for certain tasks, and also certain sizes of circles. A circle of seventy-two may have been the largest and most powerful combination, but it was not always the best for the desired results. Some tasks were best accomplished by a circle of one man and one woman, despite its limited strength, while others were more efficiently done with greater numbers. The details remain lost in the ruins of the Age of Legends, although it is possible that there may be sources hidden away in the library of the White Tower.

Its pretty clear that

a) Smaller circles could sometimes do better than a circle of 72.

b) Individual member's strengths in the power as well as the skill of the leaders mattered a lot.

Given the nature of the Seals, I'd bet they wanted thirteen AS strongest in Spirit, and also extraordinarily skilled. That must be a sufficiently rare combination as to exclude the strongest women.

Weaker women like Sorilea have shown skill, yes, but nowhere close to what even women like Egwene show, and I believe that was the minimum level of strength they considered for inclusion in the circle.</quote>

I do wonder how he managed to do it without women. Some things are impossible if you don't include men and women, and considering the men didn't link, it's strange that they could do it alone.
</quote>

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