I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 14/01/2010 09:12:05 PM
I have thoughts ...
1. Brandon has confirmed that it is Verin's weave that is being alluded to here. I think Verin compelled those Sisters to support Rand, which was once again her underminding the BA. It also explains Elza's massive epiphany that she must help Rand reach the Last Battle.
2. She was told to tell Semirhage that she had Compulsion on her. This is most unusual. Firstly, it means that someone of immense skill delved her (Verin said she was the most Talented delver in the White Tower). Secondly, that person could not do it themselves. These two facts point to Shadar Haran, but he can only sense saidin or saidar, he can't tell what it is, and it's remarkable that he could sense such a minute amount in Elza hidden so deeply. It's also odd that he told Semirhage about it. My only thought here would be that it would help Semirhage explain any odd or unacceptable behaviour in Elza, which would prevent her from killing her for insubordination immediately. Yet, did Semirhage unravel this weave? She said it was very dangerous but she can do it. And yet, Elza later seems horrified at the situation she finds herself in - she even pleads to Semirhage. Either this is still the Compulsion in effect that Semirhage decided to leave, or Elza is shocked at Semirhage's cruelty and she can't handle it.
Thoughts?
1. Brandon has confirmed that it is Verin's weave that is being alluded to here. I think Verin compelled those Sisters to support Rand, which was once again her underminding the BA. It also explains Elza's massive epiphany that she must help Rand reach the Last Battle.
2. She was told to tell Semirhage that she had Compulsion on her. This is most unusual. Firstly, it means that someone of immense skill delved her (Verin said she was the most Talented delver in the White Tower). Secondly, that person could not do it themselves. These two facts point to Shadar Haran, but he can only sense saidin or saidar, he can't tell what it is, and it's remarkable that he could sense such a minute amount in Elza hidden so deeply. It's also odd that he told Semirhage about it. My only thought here would be that it would help Semirhage explain any odd or unacceptable behaviour in Elza, which would prevent her from killing her for insubordination immediately. Yet, did Semirhage unravel this weave? She said it was very dangerous but she can do it. And yet, Elza later seems horrified at the situation she finds herself in - she even pleads to Semirhage. Either this is still the Compulsion in effect that Semirhage decided to leave, or Elza is shocked at Semirhage's cruelty and she can't handle it.
Thoughts?
Who else would be so skilled with Compulsion that she could tell what was going on? Who else of the FS was in the general area, knew where Semirhage was being held and has an extensive network of spies to sniff out the situation before she acted? Who else could have taught Elza special "AOL weaves"?
Cyndane and Moghedien could have been involved, but we know Moggy doesn't have a ton of skill with Compulsion and Cyndane seems unlikely to have been allowed near Rand

I think the text supports that Elza's Compulsion had been removed, there's a quote out there about "looking like she'd been hit in the head" and "red rimmed eyes" and wasn't Semirhage specifically told to remove it?
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Elza's Compulsion
14/01/2010 08:41:04 PM
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I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story
14/01/2010 09:12:05 PM
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I disagree
14/01/2010 09:27:27 PM
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except work with Semirhage!
14/01/2010 09:34:37 PM
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Well...
14/01/2010 09:43:40 PM
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SH can't channel thus can't teach Elza anything *NM*
14/01/2010 10:20:19 PM
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Yeah, but according to BS, he apparently could "give her the knowledge". *shrug* *NM*
15/01/2010 07:16:22 AM
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that's your interpretation of the quote
15/01/2010 05:58:30 PM
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This and the others quotes suggest that only SH and Elza were involved *NM*
16/01/2010 09:51:24 AM
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As I said that's certainly one of of interpreting the quotes
16/01/2010 03:46:55 PM
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The question is...
16/01/2010 03:59:24 PM
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Re: The question is...
16/01/2010 04:02:55 PM
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Yeah, as I said elsewhere, would be a nice question for BS, if there was another Forsaken. *NM*
16/01/2010 04:08:05 PM
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I bet you anything he'd giva a big fat RAFO to that
16/01/2010 04:08:58 PM
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BS spoke quite openly about this scene, though
16/01/2010 04:16:09 PM
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always worth a try, but wasn't he asked to be less open recently?
16/01/2010 04:31:54 PM
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I agree with you, for a related but slightly different reason ...
14/01/2010 09:58:28 PM
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That doesn't prove anything...
14/01/2010 10:07:46 PM
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Re: That doesn't prove anything...
15/01/2010 11:03:05 AM
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not really
15/01/2010 05:29:25 PM
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I don't understand your theory
16/01/2010 05:08:03 PM
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It's very simple
16/01/2010 06:17:36 PM
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So in other words
17/01/2010 06:31:58 PM
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no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct
17/01/2010 06:43:41 PM
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Re: no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct
18/01/2010 04:48:33 AM
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I'm talking about implanting knowledge into someone elses head
18/01/2010 05:37:32 AM
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Here's Brandon's one answer
18/01/2010 05:20:20 PM
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But...
18/01/2010 05:48:54 PM
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But by this logic...
18/01/2010 06:50:43 PM
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Yes...
18/01/2010 07:00:40 PM
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While you are right...
18/01/2010 08:44:19 PM
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as we've discussed in another thread
18/01/2010 09:08:56 PM
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I mean...
19/01/2010 02:21:39 PM
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Weren't they specifically called Weaves that haven't been seen since the AoL?
19/01/2010 05:26:38 PM
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"Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves" is the quote.
19/01/2010 06:14:22 PM
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Well if they were secret Ajah weaves someone would have recognized them *NM*
19/01/2010 06:21:19 PM
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See, I think there's reason for her presence to be kept secret...
18/01/2010 09:10:43 PM
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Yet Rand/LTT tells us only a few chapters later
14/01/2010 10:27:57 PM
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Anything is possible ...
14/01/2010 10:54:46 PM
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who knows
14/01/2010 11:21:43 PM
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It's not all that convoluted, though ...
15/01/2010 03:26:01 PM
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Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end
15/01/2010 05:57:10 PM
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Good point!
15/01/2010 07:19:00 AM
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what doesn't make sense about this to me
15/01/2010 06:04:45 PM
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Re: what doesn't make sense about this to me
15/01/2010 06:29:59 PM
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this makes my head hurt ... or maybe all that red wine I drank last night is doing that
15/01/2010 07:04:23 PM
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As it is often the case...
16/01/2010 09:30:56 AM
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go re-read my statements and quit putting words in my mouth please.
16/01/2010 03:59:52 PM
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Re: I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story
14/01/2010 09:30:53 PM
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Uhhh?
14/01/2010 09:13:13 PM
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One point
14/01/2010 09:20:09 PM
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Elza truly believes that...
14/01/2010 09:38:35 PM
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Elza "found a reason to follow the Compulsion"
14/01/2010 11:23:33 PM
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So, it came from her, and would not go when the Compulsion was removed.
15/01/2010 05:56:32 AM
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Not quite
14/01/2010 09:38:45 PM
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But that could mean that they were to start the LB between Rand and the Great Lord immediately *NM*
16/01/2010 01:04:32 PM
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