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Re: as we've discussed in the past, it's very loose Sidious Send a noteboard - 09/01/2010 07:32:57 PM
My basic mentality is this:

Egwene = 3 average strength sisters (women like Eldirth or Ispan and Falion), this is supported by Aviendha's assertion of her being stronger than Amys and Melane (strong AS level women).

Nynaeve = 3 Strong Sisters (Delana, Masuri, Rafela etc)

Moiraine = 3 weak sisters (Daigian, Kumira, Siuan and Leane) which we know is true from Siuan's reduction.

IMO the books are clear that Egwene is about 80% the strength of Nynaeve and Moiraine is about 45% of Nynaeve and about 60% of Egwene.

It fits what we've seen from abilities too:

Egwene can lift about 20% less than Nynaeve can with air (while splitting her flows 4 ways)

Moiraine can lift maybe 45% less than Nynaeve's max if she used every ounce of her power.

Assuming Egwene lifted in the ball park of 375lbs in Sea Folk (3 women at about 125lbs each) while splitting her flows 4 ways and holding a a shield on a strong AS level woman in LOC and said while it wasn't easy, it wasn't all that hard either.

LOC
Summoned in Haste

Drawing a deep breath, she embraced saidar and channeled four flows before the Windfinder could react. So she knew weather, did she? Could she divide her flows four ways? Not many Aes Sedai could. One flow was Spirit, a shield she shoved onto the Windfinder to keep her from interfering. If she knew how. Each of the other three was Air, woven almost delicately around each woman, binding her arms to her sides. Lifting them was not precisely difficult, but not easy either.

Moiraine can lift 3x her body weight, maybe 350lbs using all of her strength (Siuan says that's her about her max in LOC).

LOC
To Heal Again

It was impossible. True, the simple act of picking something up was one of the hardest in channeling, but she had been able to lift nearly three times her own weight.

And Nynaeve said she could not lift both Rand and Lan at the same time in WH (Combined maybe as much as 500lbs).

WH
Blue Carp Street

"I saw them," Rand said. "They're inside now. Nynaeve, can you lift Lan and me to that rooftop from the alley behind the building?" Nynaeve frowned at Zeram's building, rubbing the belt around her waist with one hand. "One at a time, I could," she said finally. "But it would use more than half what the Well holds. I wouldn't be able to lift you down again."

and later

Something unseen wrapped snugly around Rand's chest beneath his arms, and slowly he rose into the air, floating higher until he drifted over the edge of the overhanging eave. The invisible harness vanished, and his boots dropped to the sloping roof, sliding a little on the damp gray slates. Crouching, he moved back on all fours. A few moments later, Lan floated up to land on the roof, too.

Obviously not an absolute as I don't think ability in one weave/flow can really define total strength, but it does give us some scope since all of these women are strong in Air, no Talent is involved, and it's something every channeler can do to some degree or another based on their strength.


It's fun to debate, but I doubt we'll change one another's minds. Mine remains...
Nynaeve - 85-90
Egwene - 50
Moiraine - 25

I think the author's given us good evidence to show that Nynaeve exceeds the girls by a large margin, for instance...

TFOH (Ripped Away) - The amount of saidar that Nynaeve had drawn into herself was amazing.

To say that Elayne is amazed because she's nowhere near her own potential doesn't really cut it for me. Elayne would have said something along the lines of her impatience to come close to that amount of potential so that she could experience it for herself. At that stage, Nynaeve was already as strong as Moghedien, the weakest of the Forsaken and had some way to go - I believe she's almost as strong as is possible. It really seems to me that Elayne is conveying the fact that she will never approach anything close to that amount of saidar.

And of course, there are other signs that I like - like the fact that Nynaeve, Moghedien and Lanfear shine like the sun when channeling whereas Elayne and Egwene do not ever. You've also got to make a circle of three equal Forsaken strength - because Egwene and Elayne infer that they approach or equal that power in those circles.

I don't really think that the Air-lifting thing works, for the following reasons...
1. Nynaeve may be considering the limitations of the well, and not her own ability. We don't know how it works.
2. Nynaeve is unskilled in everything except Healing, according to Cadsuane.
3. Nynaeve may have been perturbed by the height of the building - Egwene herself says that height is a limitation when lifting things.
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Is Rand logical when he estimates female danger? - 07/01/2010 03:34:05 PM 1436 Views
Basically you have to be ready for anything! - 07/01/2010 03:45:31 PM 790 Views
Yep. Send Daigian in Linked with 12 of her buddies (one of whom is holding an angreal) & hes screwed - 07/01/2010 05:19:03 PM 1012 Views
Miscommunication seems to be a major theme of the series *NM* - 07/01/2010 07:17:16 PM 401 Views
As well as missed opportunities. - 07/01/2010 09:27:56 PM 719 Views
yes, the Amyrlin story line could have been wrapped up much earlier! - 07/01/2010 09:55:30 PM 826 Views
Yeah, I really wish his vision had been pushed. - 07/01/2010 10:16:15 PM 649 Views
ROFL - 08/01/2010 01:01:03 AM 626 Views
Re: ROFL - 08/01/2010 02:43:50 PM 665 Views
For a major theme, it sure is surprising - 08/01/2010 04:10:22 AM 708 Views
really? miscommunication seems to be woven into just about every sentence - 08/01/2010 04:53:48 AM 645 Views
Re: really? miscommunication seems to be woven into just about every sentence - 08/01/2010 04:10:04 PM 736 Views
Re: Is Rand logical when he estimates female danger? - 07/01/2010 03:48:14 PM 830 Views
Thanks for pointing to that Taim incident... its another proof... - 07/01/2010 04:15:33 PM 785 Views
I always like to think that Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha Linked can match Rand. - 07/01/2010 05:26:35 PM 712 Views
Those three... - 07/01/2010 05:35:24 PM 685 Views
I think this is probably close - 07/01/2010 07:19:40 PM 842 Views
- 07/01/2010 08:51:15 PM 858 Views
HA! - 07/01/2010 09:01:14 PM 806 Views
Re: HA! - 08/01/2010 11:37:06 AM 836 Views
Re: HA! - 08/01/2010 04:21:01 PM 639 Views
d'oh ... you've got him there - 08/01/2010 05:35:15 PM 581 Views
Hmm... - 09/01/2010 03:02:04 PM 623 Views
Re: Hmm... - 09/01/2010 04:47:05 PM 747 Views
Re: Hmm... - 09/01/2010 05:06:06 PM 743 Views
as we've discussed in the past, it's very loose - 09/01/2010 06:20:26 PM 833 Views
Re: as we've discussed in the past, it's very loose - 09/01/2010 07:32:57 PM 2963 Views
Re: as we've discussed in the past, it's very loose - 09/01/2010 09:05:01 PM 827 Views
Re: as we've discussed in the past, it's very loose - 09/01/2010 09:15:32 PM 967 Views
Re: as we've discussed in the past, it's very loose - 10/01/2010 02:06:09 AM 775 Views
There are issues, of course! - 09/01/2010 06:17:08 PM 942 Views
Re: There are issues, of course! - 09/01/2010 07:18:03 PM 901 Views
I think I fall in between you guys - 09/01/2010 08:46:58 PM 830 Views
Getting tired of this merry go round, but here we go again... - 07/01/2010 09:08:59 PM 741 Views
Don't get on it! It causes insanity. - 07/01/2010 09:29:15 PM 647 Views
d'uh - 07/01/2010 09:57:30 PM 734 Views
For the last time! - 07/01/2010 09:50:16 PM 906 Views
it's about EFFECTIVE strength Fionwe (jk) - 07/01/2010 10:05:48 PM 604 Views
I don't think they were that bad back then, but still... - 07/01/2010 10:11:46 PM 717 Views
and he's gone out of his way IMO to show that it's a stupid - 07/01/2010 10:41:03 PM 775 Views
Re: I don't think they were that bad back then, but still... - 08/01/2010 11:38:48 AM 633 Views
I'd actually go with Elayne in matters of battle. - 08/01/2010 02:47:34 PM 743 Views
Wow, I wasn't expecting that - 08/01/2010 02:55:53 PM 824 Views
I'm not too impressed with the Forsaken so far. - 08/01/2010 03:30:43 PM 648 Views
I'm tempted to go with Taim too, but... - 08/01/2010 04:25:52 PM 690 Views
If Elayne had wanted Taim dead, he and his minions would have been dead - 08/01/2010 05:41:29 PM 739 Views
The reverse would be true too, though... - 08/01/2010 05:50:02 PM 652 Views
But she just heard Taim say to basically stand down - 08/01/2010 06:05:43 PM 701 Views
But... - 08/01/2010 08:53:11 PM 902 Views
Ah but Elayne also knew they knew Rand wouldn't allow it - 08/01/2010 10:40:45 PM 751 Views
That whole lack of communication thing made my eye twitch. - 08/01/2010 11:00:25 PM 765 Views
or just painfully stupid! - 08/01/2010 11:10:37 PM 585 Views
Re: But... - 10/01/2010 03:20:12 AM 760 Views
Re: Is Rand logical when he estimates female danger? - 07/01/2010 05:13:48 PM 641 Views
I think he is illogical towards all danger, regardless of gender. - 07/01/2010 06:39:37 PM 653 Views
It's all kind of irrelevant. - 08/01/2010 11:28:46 PM 916 Views

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