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Re: There are issues, of course! Sidious Send a noteboard - 09/01/2010 07:18:03 PM
So, 10 or 11 of the 21 levels occupy the range from 0 to 25? And the other 10 occupy 25 to 100? As you said earlier, this doesn't make sense, because this means that the difference between some of the levels is less than that between others. It also leaves vast gaps occupied by no one.


I'm pretty sure the strengths lie somewhere here. The difference between Aes Sedai strengths seems to be very small because they've had a narrow spectrum of selective strength for hundreds of years. Suddenly women like Nynaeve and Egwene are popping up. It's like having a whole population of people who average 5' to 6'. Suddenly a few 7' and 8' people are showing up, and naturally that will screw up the scale hugely.

You can get the same results by shifting the Aes Sedai to a higher range.


Yes you can, but then it starts to conflict every comparative quote in the series. It's all well and good to place an Aes Sedai at 50, but then you have to wonder how...
- Rand can smother Verin and Alanna so easily. They are by no means weak and equal to 100 if you believe they have strengths of 50. It also doesn't explain why Verin thinks it will take 13 to take Rand down. Rand also tells us that it doesn't take trifles of saidin to shield a woman, and yet Verin said he snapped their connections like threads. He's vastly more powerful than their combined strength.
- Liandrin thinks that three black ajah can smother Moghedien. If the AS are sitting at 50, then Moghedien is no match for two.
- ANY of the Forsaken managed to resist circles at the Cleansing if channelers were averaging 50 PLUS mixed circles with their advantages.
- Egwene exceeds Amys and Melaine in strength.
- A false Dragon has ever managed to resist six women, and we know that they do frequently.
- Logain needs six women to hold him and can come close to escaping with five. Even if women struggle to hold men more, this would imply that the combined strength of 300 could not hold an already shielded man, which is implausible.

I could probably think of others. To me, RJ has clearly made the highest strength channelers several times stronger than some of the weaker ones, to the point that whole groups of them are needed to overwhelm stronger channelers. I'll never really agree that this is limited by a factor of 2.


Thus, Egwene with Romanda and Lelaine, or with Avi, can match any of the Forsaken in strength. My interpretation that Egwene was referring to skill when she said she couldn't face one of the FS in a circle with R and L holds.


Alivia with her angreal was much stronger than Cyndane and it was an even match.

But place Egwene at 65-70, Aes Sedai around 40, and you get the same results, but this also matches what RJ said about the Bell Curve.


It means that three Aes Sedai in a ring can match anyone, which I think it contradicted by the books. Most high level channelers can resist up to six before they run into trouble - we have numerous examples from the history of the Tower vs False Dragons, and Kiruna is sure that six can't best Rand. It doesn't even matter if you need to be ten times stronger than someone to shield them - a circle of six woman with 40-50 strength will be at least twice as strong as Rand, and probably more, and can beat him down and then shield him. Evidently six women are close to Rand's own strength, which is why False Dragons sometimes win those encounters.
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This message last edited by Sidious on 09/01/2010 at 07:35:34 PM
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Is Rand logical when he estimates female danger? - 07/01/2010 03:34:05 PM 1497 Views
Basically you have to be ready for anything! - 07/01/2010 03:45:31 PM 854 Views
Yep. Send Daigian in Linked with 12 of her buddies (one of whom is holding an angreal) & hes screwed - 07/01/2010 05:19:03 PM 1078 Views
Miscommunication seems to be a major theme of the series *NM* - 07/01/2010 07:17:16 PM 430 Views
As well as missed opportunities. - 07/01/2010 09:27:56 PM 784 Views
yes, the Amyrlin story line could have been wrapped up much earlier! - 07/01/2010 09:55:30 PM 896 Views
Yeah, I really wish his vision had been pushed. - 07/01/2010 10:16:15 PM 720 Views
ROFL - 08/01/2010 01:01:03 AM 682 Views
Re: ROFL - 08/01/2010 02:43:50 PM 730 Views
For a major theme, it sure is surprising - 08/01/2010 04:10:22 AM 778 Views
really? miscommunication seems to be woven into just about every sentence - 08/01/2010 04:53:48 AM 702 Views
Re: really? miscommunication seems to be woven into just about every sentence - 08/01/2010 04:10:04 PM 800 Views
Re: Is Rand logical when he estimates female danger? - 07/01/2010 03:48:14 PM 892 Views
Thanks for pointing to that Taim incident... its another proof... - 07/01/2010 04:15:33 PM 860 Views
I always like to think that Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha Linked can match Rand. - 07/01/2010 05:26:35 PM 777 Views
Those three... - 07/01/2010 05:35:24 PM 751 Views
I think this is probably close - 07/01/2010 07:19:40 PM 902 Views
- 07/01/2010 08:51:15 PM 918 Views
HA! - 07/01/2010 09:01:14 PM 864 Views
Re: HA! - 08/01/2010 11:37:06 AM 893 Views
Re: HA! - 08/01/2010 04:21:01 PM 705 Views
d'oh ... you've got him there - 08/01/2010 05:35:15 PM 643 Views
Hmm... - 09/01/2010 03:02:04 PM 694 Views
Re: Hmm... - 09/01/2010 04:47:05 PM 812 Views
Re: Hmm... - 09/01/2010 05:06:06 PM 801 Views
as we've discussed in the past, it's very loose - 09/01/2010 06:20:26 PM 906 Views
Re: as we've discussed in the past, it's very loose - 09/01/2010 07:32:57 PM 3031 Views
Re: as we've discussed in the past, it's very loose - 09/01/2010 09:05:01 PM 891 Views
Re: as we've discussed in the past, it's very loose - 09/01/2010 09:15:32 PM 1034 Views
Re: as we've discussed in the past, it's very loose - 10/01/2010 02:06:09 AM 843 Views
There are issues, of course! - 09/01/2010 06:17:08 PM 1011 Views
Re: There are issues, of course! - 09/01/2010 07:18:03 PM 975 Views
I think I fall in between you guys - 09/01/2010 08:46:58 PM 897 Views
Getting tired of this merry go round, but here we go again... - 07/01/2010 09:08:59 PM 795 Views
Don't get on it! It causes insanity. - 07/01/2010 09:29:15 PM 711 Views
d'uh - 07/01/2010 09:57:30 PM 801 Views
For the last time! - 07/01/2010 09:50:16 PM 972 Views
it's about EFFECTIVE strength Fionwe (jk) - 07/01/2010 10:05:48 PM 675 Views
I don't think they were that bad back then, but still... - 07/01/2010 10:11:46 PM 776 Views
and he's gone out of his way IMO to show that it's a stupid - 07/01/2010 10:41:03 PM 848 Views
Re: I don't think they were that bad back then, but still... - 08/01/2010 11:38:48 AM 698 Views
I'd actually go with Elayne in matters of battle. - 08/01/2010 02:47:34 PM 813 Views
Wow, I wasn't expecting that - 08/01/2010 02:55:53 PM 884 Views
I'm not too impressed with the Forsaken so far. - 08/01/2010 03:30:43 PM 705 Views
I'm tempted to go with Taim too, but... - 08/01/2010 04:25:52 PM 759 Views
If Elayne had wanted Taim dead, he and his minions would have been dead - 08/01/2010 05:41:29 PM 809 Views
The reverse would be true too, though... - 08/01/2010 05:50:02 PM 717 Views
But she just heard Taim say to basically stand down - 08/01/2010 06:05:43 PM 768 Views
But... - 08/01/2010 08:53:11 PM 963 Views
Ah but Elayne also knew they knew Rand wouldn't allow it - 08/01/2010 10:40:45 PM 811 Views
That whole lack of communication thing made my eye twitch. - 08/01/2010 11:00:25 PM 825 Views
or just painfully stupid! - 08/01/2010 11:10:37 PM 662 Views
Re: But... - 10/01/2010 03:20:12 AM 837 Views
Re: Is Rand logical when he estimates female danger? - 07/01/2010 05:13:48 PM 707 Views
I think he is illogical towards all danger, regardless of gender. - 07/01/2010 06:39:37 PM 717 Views
It's all kind of irrelevant. - 08/01/2010 11:28:46 PM 981 Views

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