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Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention Lord Haart Send a noteboard - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM
Thousands of people in uniform, with weapons, under agreement to unquestioningly follow the orders of their rulers who have demonstrated zero good faith, and about whom a strong cause can be made for their presumed hostility. SOLDIERS ARE LEGITIMATE TARGETS. Period. This was not a trade delegation, or convention of merchants, it was an army. They refused to explain their ends to a person they believed to have some connection with Rand, and their words regarding their intentions were all indicative of their displeasure at him. They are not his people, and he owes them nothing. Their demand that he put himself entirely in their power, even as they cozy up to a city that has behaved in an extremely hostile manner towards him in the past, whose current government replaced their former leader for her decision to release him from captivity. Rand had NO reason to think them friendly or benevolent, and they were an ARMY in threatening distance of his own followers and forces. Any other way of dealing with them would have entailed greater risks to people he IS responsible for. He was justified in what he planned to do to the Borderlanders AND to the Seanchan. If they don't like it, they shouldn't have come. The "innocent" civilians have had plenty of time to move away (as for example, the Anan family did, in their moral outrage over the Seanchan institutions), but have chosen the Seanchan. They are all culpable.


Even Angelmar? Even Hurin? On a purely clinical basis, I agree that the army has shown little in the way of good faith towards Rand - but that's only considering half the equation.

The Borderlanders have been protecting Randland for a Millennia. Finally, the Dragon is reborn and they expect some support, but until the end of KoD, there is none. Instead, they hear about more trouble to the south - the False Dragon Taim who had killed thousands of Saldeans has been made the HEAD of a legion of insane male channellers, all by order of the Dragon, the man they are relying on. The White Tower is split and offers no support, the other countries are reeling from the Seanchan and Aiel invasions, so isn't it logical for the Borderlanders to assume that the real threat isn't in Trolloc hordes (especially if 50 channelers can kill 100,000 Trollocs a la KoD), but rather in the dissension and division to the south.

If Rand was completely sane, he would immediately see this. But his astrologically-proportioned ego and paranoia are blinding him.

So instead of at least asking Hurin to bring him more information, he considers destroying an entire city and army camp. Not everyone in that camp is even a soldier - many are cooks, cleaners, wives (who we are told accompany their husbands in the case of Saldea), children, who have all been led their by trusted monarchs who have never done wrong by them.

For Rand to jump instantly to feeling distrust, anger and fear towards the Borderlanders is more than just disconcerting.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1582 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 983 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 978 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1006 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 909 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 821 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 939 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 853 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 820 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 774 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 763 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 730 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 757 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 740 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 897 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 805 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 864 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 745 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 841 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 778 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 771 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 764 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 874 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 888 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 802 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 915 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 725 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 764 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 405 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 792 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 794 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 761 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 442 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 739 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 375 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 750 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 725 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 859 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 776 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 812 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 810 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 794 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 792 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 815 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 771 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 822 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 712 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 803 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 782 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 793 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 808 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 748 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 821 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 754 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 694 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 872 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 806 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 781 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 742 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 798 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 705 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 730 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 882 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 728 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 733 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 813 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 754 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 786 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 866 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 734 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 737 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 803 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 740 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 886 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 839 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 794 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 827 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 722 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 829 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 768 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 815 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 737 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 812 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 973 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1081 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 705 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 750 Views

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