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Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention Lord Haart Send a noteboard - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM
Thousands of people in uniform, with weapons, under agreement to unquestioningly follow the orders of their rulers who have demonstrated zero good faith, and about whom a strong cause can be made for their presumed hostility. SOLDIERS ARE LEGITIMATE TARGETS. Period. This was not a trade delegation, or convention of merchants, it was an army. They refused to explain their ends to a person they believed to have some connection with Rand, and their words regarding their intentions were all indicative of their displeasure at him. They are not his people, and he owes them nothing. Their demand that he put himself entirely in their power, even as they cozy up to a city that has behaved in an extremely hostile manner towards him in the past, whose current government replaced their former leader for her decision to release him from captivity. Rand had NO reason to think them friendly or benevolent, and they were an ARMY in threatening distance of his own followers and forces. Any other way of dealing with them would have entailed greater risks to people he IS responsible for. He was justified in what he planned to do to the Borderlanders AND to the Seanchan. If they don't like it, they shouldn't have come. The "innocent" civilians have had plenty of time to move away (as for example, the Anan family did, in their moral outrage over the Seanchan institutions), but have chosen the Seanchan. They are all culpable.


Even Angelmar? Even Hurin? On a purely clinical basis, I agree that the army has shown little in the way of good faith towards Rand - but that's only considering half the equation.

The Borderlanders have been protecting Randland for a Millennia. Finally, the Dragon is reborn and they expect some support, but until the end of KoD, there is none. Instead, they hear about more trouble to the south - the False Dragon Taim who had killed thousands of Saldeans has been made the HEAD of a legion of insane male channellers, all by order of the Dragon, the man they are relying on. The White Tower is split and offers no support, the other countries are reeling from the Seanchan and Aiel invasions, so isn't it logical for the Borderlanders to assume that the real threat isn't in Trolloc hordes (especially if 50 channelers can kill 100,000 Trollocs a la KoD), but rather in the dissension and division to the south.

If Rand was completely sane, he would immediately see this. But his astrologically-proportioned ego and paranoia are blinding him.

So instead of at least asking Hurin to bring him more information, he considers destroying an entire city and army camp. Not everyone in that camp is even a soldier - many are cooks, cleaners, wives (who we are told accompany their husbands in the case of Saldea), children, who have all been led their by trusted monarchs who have never done wrong by them.

For Rand to jump instantly to feeling distrust, anger and fear towards the Borderlanders is more than just disconcerting.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1593 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 992 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 990 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1014 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 920 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 830 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 949 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 861 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 831 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 784 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 780 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 742 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 768 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 749 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 905 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 814 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 876 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 756 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 850 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 787 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 797 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 775 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 884 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 899 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 811 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 925 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 738 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 787 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 409 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 803 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 808 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 772 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 448 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 753 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 388 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 761 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 736 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 868 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 790 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 828 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 820 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 807 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 804 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 825 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 780 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 836 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 723 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 813 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 796 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 802 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 817 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 758 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 832 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 763 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 705 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 883 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 816 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 793 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 749 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 806 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 716 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 740 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 892 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 739 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 744 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 822 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 767 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 799 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 874 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 743 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 748 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 812 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 751 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 896 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 850 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 806 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 838 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 732 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 840 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 787 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 826 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 750 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 823 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 982 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1089 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 717 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 757 Views

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