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Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention Lord Haart Send a noteboard - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM
Thousands of people in uniform, with weapons, under agreement to unquestioningly follow the orders of their rulers who have demonstrated zero good faith, and about whom a strong cause can be made for their presumed hostility. SOLDIERS ARE LEGITIMATE TARGETS. Period. This was not a trade delegation, or convention of merchants, it was an army. They refused to explain their ends to a person they believed to have some connection with Rand, and their words regarding their intentions were all indicative of their displeasure at him. They are not his people, and he owes them nothing. Their demand that he put himself entirely in their power, even as they cozy up to a city that has behaved in an extremely hostile manner towards him in the past, whose current government replaced their former leader for her decision to release him from captivity. Rand had NO reason to think them friendly or benevolent, and they were an ARMY in threatening distance of his own followers and forces. Any other way of dealing with them would have entailed greater risks to people he IS responsible for. He was justified in what he planned to do to the Borderlanders AND to the Seanchan. If they don't like it, they shouldn't have come. The "innocent" civilians have had plenty of time to move away (as for example, the Anan family did, in their moral outrage over the Seanchan institutions), but have chosen the Seanchan. They are all culpable.


Even Angelmar? Even Hurin? On a purely clinical basis, I agree that the army has shown little in the way of good faith towards Rand - but that's only considering half the equation.

The Borderlanders have been protecting Randland for a Millennia. Finally, the Dragon is reborn and they expect some support, but until the end of KoD, there is none. Instead, they hear about more trouble to the south - the False Dragon Taim who had killed thousands of Saldeans has been made the HEAD of a legion of insane male channellers, all by order of the Dragon, the man they are relying on. The White Tower is split and offers no support, the other countries are reeling from the Seanchan and Aiel invasions, so isn't it logical for the Borderlanders to assume that the real threat isn't in Trolloc hordes (especially if 50 channelers can kill 100,000 Trollocs a la KoD), but rather in the dissension and division to the south.

If Rand was completely sane, he would immediately see this. But his astrologically-proportioned ego and paranoia are blinding him.

So instead of at least asking Hurin to bring him more information, he considers destroying an entire city and army camp. Not everyone in that camp is even a soldier - many are cooks, cleaners, wives (who we are told accompany their husbands in the case of Saldea), children, who have all been led their by trusted monarchs who have never done wrong by them.

For Rand to jump instantly to feeling distrust, anger and fear towards the Borderlanders is more than just disconcerting.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1875 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1288 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1276 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1310 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1213 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 1124 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1199 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 1102 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 1095 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 1066 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 1073 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 1033 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 1067 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 1046 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1163 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 1072 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 1172 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 1109 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 1149 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 1073 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 1143 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 1052 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 1169 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1170 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 1123 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1201 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 1012 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 1194 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 566 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 1068 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 1073 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 1037 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 573 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 1013 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 566 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 1051 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 992 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 1151 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 1125 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 1099 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 1089 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 1106 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 1084 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 1183 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 1041 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 1163 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 1008 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 1081 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 1064 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 1081 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 1093 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 1025 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 1099 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 1071 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 985 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 1137 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 1112 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 1127 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 1042 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 1074 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 978 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 1003 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1178 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 1016 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 1002 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 1102 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 1068 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 1065 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 1139 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 994 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 1033 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 1113 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 1020 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 1188 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 1130 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 1072 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 1102 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 1021 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 1136 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 1096 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 1083 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 1018 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 1099 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1279 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1404 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 983 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 1014 Views

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