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Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. Datakim Send a noteboard - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM
Rand Travels in disguised under an illusion of invisibility, tracks Graendal down by advancing through her palace and balefires her while she is bathing.


Triggers wards like Sammaels, Graendal flees.


Or a re-use of the Rahvin Scenario: Rand Travels in with a fighting force with orders to only kill those Compelled to attack them, he brings Nynayeve/Cadsuane/random Aes Sedai in his retinue/Wondergirl/a channeling member of his harem/Wise Ones in to detect saidar. Graendal has some sort of defense that doesn't take him out, he chases her down preventing her Gateways from opening all the way each time she tries and finally balefires her just as she's about to escape through an inverted Gateway.


How will Rand chase her? How will he prevent her gateways from opening all the way? How will he reach her in time when she could be anywhere in the palace and she will flee at the instant she senses trouble.

I suppose you could argue that Rand's tav'eren nature would make it so that he could just randomly open a gateway anywhere and accidentally open it ontop of Graendal. But if I start accepting explanations like that, any debate becomes meaningless.

Oh, and I love how you just mention "Graendal has some sort of defense that doesn't take him out" as if its the most natural thing in the world. For all we know Rand would have perished the instant he went anywhere near. Graendal has had months or years even to prepare her little fort with countless wards and traps.

The point is that Rand/LTT makes it clear that this kind of surprise attack is not possible. Since you did not read that part of the book, I will write it for you here.


How? How can I kill a foe who is more clever than myself, a foe who is _impossible to surprise_ yet who is also _unwilling to confront me_?


I think LTT knows Graendal better than you do. If he says she is impossible to surprise, I believe him. And that means your suggestions will not work.

That was the whole _point_ of the scene and this whole thing. That surprising or confronting Graendal the way he did Rahvin and the others is simply not possible. Thats how Graendal operates. To accept your plans, would mean accepting that Graendal is not actually Graendal.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1583 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 984 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 979 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1007 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 909 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 822 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 939 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 853 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 820 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 775 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 763 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 730 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 757 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 740 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 897 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 806 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 864 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 746 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 841 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 779 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 772 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 765 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 874 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 889 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 803 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 916 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 725 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 765 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 406 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 792 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 794 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 762 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 443 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 740 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 376 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 750 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 726 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 859 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 777 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 812 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 811 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 794 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 793 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 816 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 772 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 822 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 712 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 803 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 782 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 794 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 808 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 749 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 821 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 754 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 694 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 872 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 807 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 781 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 742 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 798 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 705 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 730 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 882 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 729 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 733 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 813 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 755 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 786 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 866 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 735 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 737 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 803 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 741 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 886 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 840 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 794 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 828 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 723 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 830 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 768 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 815 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 738 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 812 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 973 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1081 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 706 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 750 Views

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